Holding to the Hit and Horse Stance

[HyzerUniBomber]

In the video, I realize now that I exaggerated how long to hold onto the disc...

I think I am holding it into the hit zone on the disc - but I know you don't end up with your arm dead straight in front of you. I do think the point is still valid, that I was probably slipping out substantially early before - somewhere around the front of the disc. Slowing it down, at least for me, gained me easy distance.

This is stuff I'm definitely still working on - and I don't want anybody to think I'm trying to be authoritarian about this stuff. I just felt like it would be nice to have a visual for some of this - and believe me, it's still a daily effort to make these improvements.

I still have lots of improving to do.

 

[Dan Ensor]

Holding on to the hit is about disc acceleration. During the pivot, disc speed increases GREATLY! If you put a dot on the part of the disc you're trying to throw forward (opposite your grip point), and see how fast that dot is moving through the throw, it's pretty unimpressive until the disc pivots. Then it's pi*r^2 (fast).

 

[_dj_]

That's good stuff HUB. Driving the rear knee down to start the hip rotation is definitely something I need to work on. Thanks for the video.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

And I apologize for the wind noise. If anybody knows a reasonably easy way to get that out with software, I'll give it a try. It didn't sound too bad on headphones, but I just saw it on my tv and it was pretty bad.

 

[sidewinder22]

Your grip looks a little off plane to the forearm, and when you are demonstrating holding the disc out in front of you, you have all your fingers on the disc and wrist open. If all fingers are on the disc the wrist should be closed. The disc should pivot around the index finger only the very last millisecond during wrist extension. So in your demo position there you should only have the index and thumb on the disc so the disc has pivoted around and the head/heavy end of the disc has swung around and is now leading to the target leaving your hand.

I think Horse Stance is most often from trying to lean over the rear leg too far. In a standstill the rear knee should straighten in the backswing as you turn/load into the rear hip knee and foot, but most flex or collapse posture in the rear knee as the lean over to try and keep balance or face plant. "The Move" or transition back forward should begin with a rear leg squat(loading weight rear side to move it forward), but most have to extend the knee and hip to get their upper body upright, so they don't fall over.

Your rear foot/heel is spinning out in your standstills.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

SW, I'd be interested in seeing you do some stand stills on video, especially as it seems you have a different style from the way Will describes it. Will, it seems from the video, would be hitting the door frame with his shoulders - initiating with the hips twisting and moving forward, where you're hitting it with your hips, then twisting. I think what you're pointing out is that you want to generate that motion with your hips leading - but it's a big hard for me to imagine how that meshes with the 2nd half of the motion.

Even his own "technique" video, Will's showing 2 distinctly different things:

1. This looks like an upshot:

2. This is more of drive:

But, I see what I think you're saying about my back foot during stand-stills. Will shows it pretty perfectly in that he leaves that back foot right behind him until his hips are fully opened.

Stand stills are harder!

 

[luckless_pedestrian]

This kind of thread is why I come here. Great stuff.

Well, that and the disc porn.

 

[sidewinder22]

I'm not sure what you mean by Will would hit the door frame with his shoulder?

The door frame drill is to leverage your weight against the frame.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

I'm not sure what you mean by Will would hit the door frame with his shoulder?

The door frame drill is to leverage your weight against the frame.

Okay, so I guess I was taking the door frame drill as more of a "get your body into this position to throw" thing - but I think you're saying it's more to get the feeling for what leading with your hips feels like and where that toe drive is going to pressure your driving foot.

 

[sidewinder22]

Your rear heel moves or twists away from the target. Search right foot eversion golf on YouTube. The rear foot should roll to the inside and the heel will lead toward the target ahead of the toes as it leaves the ground.

 

[sidewinder22]

Okay, so I guess I was taking the door frame drill as more of a "get your body into this position to throw" thing - but I think you're saying it's more to get the feeling for what leading with your hips feels like and where that toe drive is going to pressure your driving foot.

Yep you need to really sit on that drill and find what little changes affect your leverage. This is the point before the arm and disc starts moving targetward. So it's your weight countered against the weight of the disc.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

I slowed down the last drive in the video.

I'm pretty confused w/ the rear foot thing - but I am staying up on the balls of my feet - I won't allow my rear heel to touch the ground for now... or least I'm trying. It's pretty easy to slip back into that flat footed stance, so I have started the x-step by being on the toes - as a reminder that it has to stay up.

 

[bfowler]

Your rear heel moves or twists away from the target. Search right foot eversion golf on YouTube. The rear foot should roll to the inside and the heel will lead toward the target ahead of the toes as it leaves the ground.

I'm confused as well. First you say the rear heel moves away from the target but then say the heel sound lead ahead of the toes towards the target.

 

[sidewinder22]

I was referring to HUB's standstill, it's clear as day his rear heel spins backward. It should move opposite direction.

 

[bfowler]

Sorry, I read your post wrong. You started with a statement of what his heel was doing. I thought that was part of our correction.

I just looked at video of myself and my heal moves forward but it does it more in a fashion where my heel pulls forward and behind me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eebz7BCAPYg&list=UUKavy9NsHmWIiHQORcCLKAg

Watch Mike C's back heel go forward. Every time I feel my heel go forward like that any my foot feels like it's going a figure 8.

 

[sidewinder22]

Ideally the rear foot should finish like vintage Greg Norman.






Another thing that happens when people try to lean too far over the rear leg is they don't move the navel/lower spine or center of mass back and forth during the throw. The lower spine is never fully braced or loaded against the rear leg, so there's no real shift there.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

That guy in the Move videos is pretty hilarious... that's how I feel when I'm trying to get out a new discovery. A mile a minute.

I think what clicked the most for me was the baseball pitcher close up. Rolling to the instep, pushing off the toes so that the heel moves forward first then the toes after.

I still would love to see some slow motion footage of somebody besides Mr. Rubber Legs Schusterick... somebody slightly more human.

I am not super hung up on stand still driving perfection, but it's definitely something I'm trying to improve. My main goal was to really get the x-step drive into some kind of respectable shape.

it's all a damn battle.

 

[sidewinder22]

I laugh every time I watch those vids, the comedy and info is pure gold.

Will S is a leverage machine with his build, the angles he creates are crazy. Lizotte is the same but a little more athletic than Will. Jarvis brothers are also similar, they keep their posture a little more upright stacked for faster rotation.

There's a couple standstills/approaches in here:

 

[elmexdela]

ok so when you release the disc, do you want it directly in front of you. think of a upside T

so the long part of the T is straight in front of you. the horizontal part of the T is the teebox. what angle of release should the disc come out of your hand? 0 degrees? 45 degrees? i need some help.

 

[elmexdela]

maybe using the letter I

the horizontal parts on the I are the start and finish of the teepad. say your running up towards the top. what degree angle do you release on? the vertical line represents 0 degrees and is perfectly straight.

i can envision this but i feel like it might be confusing to others