Hoping to add challenge to open par 4 hole

[oldguy]

I am working on a nine hole course with two sets of tees: one intended for red level players and the other for white level players. This question concerns hole #8. The first photo below is from the red tee; the second photo is from the white tee. In both photos, the black circles represent basket locations, and the green rectangles are proposed areas for planting trees. The chalk lines that you see represent line of sight paths from tee to basket. I'd rather not plant anything in those paths.


The green rectangle on the right in the second picture is the location indicated by the green rectangle in the first picture. This area is the root of my question with this post. As you can see, right now the hole is pretty open. I want to add some decision-making from the tee without sacrificing line of sight to all three basket locations (the tree and some of the hill obstructing the view of location C from the red tee will be cleared to create line of sight). The proposed planting site is the location where there was the greatest distance between chalk lines (32 feet). I am thinking about planting three conifers in an equilateral triangle about six feet apart. I'm not sure what type of conifer (long story that's not relevant here). The group of trees would be about 200' from the red tee and 335' from the white tee. Would this addition add challenge sufficient to warrant the effort? Any thoughts or comments are appreciated.

 

[Cgkdisc]

One way to use the tree grouping is an obstacle for a buncr. Move your tree triangle closer to the tees and space the trees a little farther apart than 6 feet. Leave an uncut grass area maybe 40x40 up to 50x50 in front of the trees as your buncr area. Mark a drop zone 10-15 feet behind the tree triangle. If a player lands in the buncr area, they go to the drop zone (with no penalty) and throw from there. The new trees will force them to play a more difficult approach around the left or right of the trees.

 

[Martin Dewgarita]

Beware of the hole on #8, it appears as if it might be a black hole or three.

 

[jongoff09]

It looks to me like you are doing a good thing to add challenge to the holes. Looking at the pics, I think they would make good par-4s with the new trees.

I have a bigger arm than most white level players, but I believe I could reach the C position from that tee as it is now. With trees there, I may be more likely to play it as a par-4 and try to just get by the trees for a look at a 3. The other two positions look like boring holes without the trees (not saying they are as it is tough to tell without playing them) because it is just an open shot with an open short approach to the basket for a 3. With trees there, more thought has to be taken on the drive and it appears like you would have to actually do some shot shaping without it being too frustrating.

 

[RUSSELL]

i totally disagree with plans to remove the tree and some of the hill merely to gain line of sight from the actual tee.

 

[oldguy]

Russell,
Typically, I would agree with you. I am just trying to limit the number of blind holes on the course. In this case, I should be able to do it without affecting the challenge of the hole. I can trim the bottom of the tree and the top of the hill just enough that it won't create a viable line, just a view of the basket. That location will have a manmade green with some challenge. I want a red level player to at least be able to see where the target is.

 

[Karl]

Instead of thinking of planting / cutting trees, think instead of changing the tee box positions! Tee boxes do NOT always have to be totally in the open (with basically unobstructed shots until you get 1/2-way down the fairway or more). If you put one (or both) of the tees near / to one side of a tree you can certainly effect a bias towards a curved shot (big hyzer / anhyzer) and thus make the hole's effective distance longer.

Karl

 

[Cgkdisc]

A par 4 where you cannot see the pin from the tee is not necessarily considered a blind hole. It's only blind if you still can't see the pin from the desired landing area.

 

[JSurmann]

Beware of the hole on #8, it appears as if it might be a black hole or three.

Someone should put a stick in it.

 

[oldguy]

Karl,
Thanks for the input about moving the tee boxes. In many other places on the course, trees are quite a factor right off the tee. In the case of this hole, that's just not much of an option from the white tees.

 

[oldguy]

Chuck,
Thanks for the feedback regarding your buncr idea. I have not yet played a setup that used them, so I hesitate to incorporate them in my design without adequately understanding the ramifications on play and scoring. Also, moving the trees closer to either tee for this hole makes them not in play for the other tee. My concern for the red tee is that the trees will be too close, allowing players to get past them on their tee shot and leave a fairly clean look at the basket without much decision-making on their second throw. The current proposed location for the trees would make the average white player have to deal with them on their second throw, though.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Then perhaps the trees should be placed in a line spaced 20-30 feet apart rather than together so at least one impacts play from each tee in some way?

 

[ferretdance03]

Chuck- is a waiver needed to use a buncr in a sanctioned event or is it treated as a standard OB/mando/drop zone, etc that is course dependent?

 

[Cgkdisc]

It's a standard option within the Special Conditions rule 804.01B so no waiver is required. It's just not called a buncr in the rules yet. There are three ways to define and play a buncr. The most extreme is the way it was done at the USDGC where your previous lie is the drop zone.

The second way is what I described in this thread where if you land in the buncr area, you relocate with no penalty to the marked drop zone which is pretty close to the buncr but your next throw is more challenging because the drop zone is placed several feet behind some sort of obstacle requiring a more difficult throw.

The third way is the same as taking required casual relief where if you land in the buncr, usually a 25-30 ft kidney bean shape starting around 10 feet from the basket, you move back on the line of play to the edge of the buncr for your next throw. This type of buncr emulates a ball golf green that has a slope near one side of the hole where a ball can't land close and rolls away. In this case, if you land in the buncr, you have to move back just as if the disc "rolled away."

 

[giles]

if you wanted to make the basket visible, you could always buy a longer galvanised pole to mount the basket on and paint it a visible color with a marker flag on top.

 

[oldguy]

Chuck,
I'm not sure that I understand what you mean here:

"Then perhaps the trees should be placed in a line spaced 20-30 feet apart rather than together so at least one impacts play from each tee in some way?"

Placed in a line in which direction? Below is the Google Earth view of the area with the baskets, tees, and flight lines. I'm assuming your suggestion is to run the line of trees in a vertical line from where the green rectangle is placed.



Thanks, everyone, for your help.

 

[RUSSELL]

Russell,
Typically, I would agree with you. I am just trying to limit the number of blind holes on the course. In this case, I should be able to do it without affecting the challenge of the hole. I can trim the bottom of the tree and the top of the hill just enough that it won't create a viable line, just a view of the basket. That location will have a manmade green with some challenge. I want a red level player to at least be able to see where the target is.

ok. "trim" is quite different than "clear". :thmbup:

 

[Cgkdisc]

Thinking more like this where you provide multiple routes to some pins.

 

[oldguy]

Thanks for the clarification. I will mark out your idea today and see what it looks like from the tee.

 

[mubhcaeb78]

One thing to be wary of.. if the gap between that you are supposed to throw through gets.. I'd say less than 10' apart.. thumb/tommy over it is a better choice.. or from the tee looks like you could hyzer it way over the trees and still get 300' on first throw