Illegal discs and Illegal things

[sweeper]

I know that you are not allowed to alter discs. What I want to know is how bad is it to cheat with the discs you use in a tourney? How will anybody find out?

Let me give an example. I have a 188 Z comet that I was labeled as a 180. If I didn't get a scale to weigh it, I would never know. I could have been throwing an illegal disc in tourneys and never had a clue.

I also have a disc that I don't use that weighed in at 2 grams over its max legal weight. I was thinking about scuffing it up with sandpaper to "help" it break down during normal use to a legal weight. I also know that this is illegal, but if the disc is a legal weight, and my disc shows no signs of "tampering" I would think I (anybody) would get away with it.

Is one violation worse than the other? Am I just out my $12 because I believed (insert disc company here) could weigh their discs?

 

[DigIt]

At my first tourny I asked the TD if he had the pdga sheet showing weights because I had a 184 Element in my bag and I didn't know if it was legal. He said, "Is it 200g? Then it's okay." I took it out because I didn't know what the cut off weight was and he didn't even know there was such a thing. I seriously doubt you'd ever get busted for it but I couldn't in good conscious tell you to go for it.

 

[sweeper]

I will not and could not use any illegal discs in a tourney because it would bother me. I was just curious as to people's thoughts. Luckily, I don't really like any of the overweight discs I own.

 

[elevated plastic]

99% of the time I weigh my discs they are 1-2g off, and most of the time it's more not less. I had a mid that said 178 and weighed 186. Anyways as long as it's less than 200g it's fine. As far as the sandpaper I do it all the time and know of plenty of peeps who do it too. Don't really think it's an issue IMO.

 

[Yehosha]

B. The guidelines for golf discs are set forth in the PDGA Technical Standards Document. To be legal in PDGA competition, a disc must:

(1) have a saucer-like configuration with a flight plate unbroken by perforations and an inner rim depth which exceeds five percent of the outside disc diameter. The flight plate is defined as the upper (or dorsal) section of the disc;
(2) be made of solid, non-magnetic plastic material, without any inflatable components;
(3) not be less than 21 cm in outside disc diameter, nor exceed 40 cm in outside disc diameter;
(4) not exceed 8.3 g per cm in outside disc diameter;
(5) not exceed a maximum weight of 200 g;
(6) be essentially as produced, without any post-production modifications which affect the weight or flight characteristics;
(7) be of a production-type disc available commercially to the public in numbers of at least 1500 in the case of a new mold or 500 in the case of a renamed disc out of a previously approved mold;
(8) present no unreasonable and no unusual danger to players or spectators;
(9) have a rim configuration rating of 26.0 or greater;
(10) pass the leading edge radius test with a 1/16" (1.6 mm) radius gauge;
(11) have a flexibility rating no greater than 27 lb. (12.25 kg); and
(12) have been certified for competition by the PDGA Technical Standards Committee.

The Element is 22cm, so 22 x 8.3 = 182.6, so yeah it'd be illegal. While it's not your fault, if someone questioned a disc you used in tournament play, and a TD weighed it, you could be disqualified if the TD chose. The chance of that happening though is pretty slim.

I'm curious what a manufacturer would say if you wrote them, informed them that your disc was illegal, and asked for a refund?

 

[tito]

I have been wondering the same thing.
also, my favorite putter got a thorn stuck through it one day. So, knowing that discs with holes in them are illegal, I immediately retired it to putting practice only. When I went to my first tournament I kinda expected the TD to inspect discs but they didn't (that would take a lot of time). I couldn't help but wonder how many people get a tiny hole in their go-to disc like I did (or sometimes they have a tiny hole in the center from the factory) and still get away with using it in a tourney.
The weird thing is, I don't think a holey or overweight disc would necessarily give most players much of an edge. Having an auto-body background, I can't help but repair the deep gouges in my baseline discs with clippers and sandpaper, and sometimes I sand the flashing off new ones if they feel weird.

 

[mike]

i actually just bought a digi scale to weight discs up to the .1 of gram...

i'm running an a/b tier this summer...and i could see random pull for weight checks...but to check everyones discs....it would take 1/2 a day!

 

[tigel]

I use a food scale (diabetes) on all my discs. Anything "max weight" at 180 I check. Mostly because those discs, from my experience, have been only midranges. If I see a 176-180g champion plastic driver, I know after I throw it for a long time it WILL drop in weight 1-5g. 5 is pushing it, but 1-3 is a given. My 5 month old champion 175 wraith is now 169.

I make sure my midranges are 180 (or 182 depending on diameter) because my midranges don't hit trees going a trillion miles an hour (yes I throw that fast). I know in the same time my drivers are getting beat the shit, my midranges aren't even getting a tenth of that.


Ultimately I don't think it matters. A TD isn't going to check every disc. It's too big of a job. Even if they did, it wouldn't be worth the time/effort since I really don't think an overweight disc is THAT big of an advantage. (please prove me wrong, I don't really know what the possibilities are when it comes to that...)

 

[SkaBob]

I haven't even heard of bag/disc inspection at Worlds...

 

[Yehosha]

I haven't even heard of bag/disc inspection at Worlds...

And it should stay that way. It's a manufacturing problem, not a player problem. How would someone even know they were throwing an illegal disk. I'd guess 99.9% of all disc golfers have never weighed their discs. How is it their fault that they DG manufacturers are sloppywith their quality control?

 

[cjskier]

I haven't even heard of bag/disc inspection at Worlds...

And it should stay that way. It's a manufacturing problem, not a player problem. How would someone even know they were throwing an illegal disk. I'd guess 99.9% of all disc golfers have never weighed their discs. How is it their fault that they DG manufacturers are sloppywith their quality control?

Really? 99%?

I'm think more like half of us actually weigh our discs in actuality.

 

[Yehosha]

I haven't even heard of bag/disc inspection at Worlds...

And it should stay that way. It's a manufacturing problem, not a player problem. How would someone even know they were throwing an illegal disk. I'd guess 99.9% of all disc golfers have never weighed their discs. How is it their fault that they DG manufacturers are sloppywith their quality control?

Really? 99%?

I'm think more like half of us actually weigh our discs in actuality.

Considering I've never met one person that does, I highly doubt it's half. I know it's not 99% either, but the % I'm sure is very high.

 

[cjskier]

well, me and EVERYONE I play with does, so...



Clearly you cant trust what the discs say on them, especially Discraft's. Why would you not want to know that it REALLY weighs?

 

[juju1]

Why would you not want to know that it REALLY weighs?

Because then I couldn't throw it if I knew it was illegal. Ignorance is bliss...

 

[ferretdance03]

Why would you not want to know that it REALLY weighs?

Because the average golfer (NOT average dgr'er) doesn't care. I bet the majority of your casual players, which make up the largest portion of golfers, don't know that disc weight is even an issue.

Remember, we are the minority.

 

[mike]

or..... (shameless plug)

order from Marshall Street as the re-weigh everything.....

 

[Craig1]

Considering I've never met one person that does, I highly doubt it's half. I know it's not 99% either, but the % I'm sure is very high.

I don't personally know anyone who has bothered to weigh a disc, either. I don't think DGR is very representative of the DG community as a whole (certainly at least in my community), as I don't even know anyone else who throws a gazelle - and only a few Wizards and 1 or 2 Predators.

 

[reallybadputter]

One of the other things to be really careful about is how accurate your scale is.

Sure, it may read to the nearest 0.1 gram... but unless you are spending a lot of money on a scale or are using a balance, they aren't that accurate at all.

Looking at scales that are available through McMaster-Carr... the generic ~$80 scales with somewhere in the 2 lb to 2 kg max range have accuracies of +/-4 or 5 grams

If you want it much more accurate than that you need to either drop $250+ or you need to be using a double or triple beam balance.

Your typical kitchen or postal scale is generally not required to be horribly accurate...

Because your scale says it is 184 does not necessarily mean that it isn't 179g

Just some food for thought...

 

[chiggins]

Why would you not want to know that it REALLY weighs?

Because then I couldn't throw it if I knew it was illegal. Ignorance is bliss...

Wasn't this an issue for American players at the Japan Open a few years ago? I remember the scenario being something like: they showed up with a bunch of Innova 150 class stuff that weighed more than 150g, which not only violated regulations but would have been against the law to throw, and they had to play with brand new, unseasoned discs.

Here, I think the presumption is that if the manufacturer writes 175 on the disc, then it's not on you if it's not.

 

[Star Shark]

Yes, it was a big issue. Innova had given many of their players 150g plastic to work on a few months before the tournament
and they get there and most of the discs are weging 154-156g. They had to be thrown out and given new ones which were within spec. So those 3 months they spent beating in the original discs was a total waste and they and to work with brand new plastic at the tournament.