Illegal discs and Illegal things

[JeremySW]

One of the other things to be really careful about is how accurate your scale is.

Sure, it may read to the nearest 0.1 gram... but unless you are spending a lot of money on a scale or are using a balance, they aren't that accurate at all.

Looking at scales that are available through McMaster-Carr... the generic ~$80 scales with somewhere in the 2 lb to 2 kg max range have accuracies of +/-4 or 5 grams

If you want it much more accurate than that you need to either drop $250+ or you need to be using a double or triple beam balance.

Your typical kitchen or postal scale is generally not required to be horribly accurate...

Because your scale says it is 184 does not necessarily mean that it isn't 179g

Just some food for thought...

This is why I haven't purchased a scale and worried much about the disc weight. I generally order my drivers in the mid to high 160s area. So if they are actually +/-5 grams it doesn't bother me.

I don't trust cheap instruments much more than the weights that Innova/Discraft/Gateway claim the disc is from the factory.

shut up and throw 8)

 

[cjskier]

One of the other things to be really careful about is how accurate your scale is.

Sure, it may read to the nearest 0.1 gram... but unless you are spending a lot of money on a scale or are using a balance, they aren't that accurate at all.

Looking at scales that are available through McMaster-Carr... the generic ~$80 scales with somewhere in the 2 lb to 2 kg max range have accuracies of +/-4 or 5 grams

If you want it much more accurate than that you need to either drop $250+ or you need to be using a double or triple beam balance.

Your typical kitchen or postal scale is generally not required to be horribly accurate...

Because your scale says it is 184 does not necessarily mean that it isn't 179g

Just some food for thought...

Just check to see if it is off then. Put a nickle on it, it should weight 5 grams. Put 20 of em on it and see how close to 100 grams you are. The cheap $20 scales dealers tend to use(500g cap.) are usually fairly accurate. Check for your self.

 

[Mason65]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if your scale is off for one disc, wouldn't it be off by a similar margin for all discs? My scale seems to weight everything about a gram heavy, so I know a disc is good as long as its not more than a couple grams off.

 

[Mr. Wick]

What is the use of having a rule that will never be enforced?

 

[Frank Delicious]

Am I on the PDGA boards because I feel like this topic has been discussed to death.

 

[Cgkdisc]

What is the use of having a rule that will never be enforced?

Liability for one. If someone gets injured and it can be shown the disc was overweight, that puts the responsibility more on the player and the manufacturer, not the PDGA. Even more magnified in Japan where the overweight discs are illegal.

 

[JimW]

What is the use of having a rule that will never be enforced?

If the PDGA didn't have the rule on it then there would be no reason for manufacturers to keep the weight limits where they're at. While the rule may not be enforced at tournaments it does prevent overweight discs from being intentionally made.

 

[Danforth]

I tried a Banger GT in ESP plastic and found it to be too slick. I stuck it in a sand-blaster with coarse blasing media. It made the sides tacky and grippy in a hurry, it also took away some of the stability.

I've also experimented with VHT traction compound mixed with acetone. It makes flat-toped discs domey! 8)

 

[Roy]

What is the use of having a rule that will never be enforced?

Liability for one. If someone gets injured and it can be shown the disc was overweight, that puts the responsibility more on the player and the manufacturer, not the PDGA. Even more magnified in Japan where the overweight discs are illegal.

I never got the Japan rule... If I pick off some guy walking down the fairway, am I going to do any less damage with a 150g disc?

 

[ChUcKyZ]

If I pick off some guy walking down the fairway, am I going to do any less damage with a 150g disc?

Yes. Mass = Inertia, which is a measure of how difficult it is to change an object's motion. The more massive an object, the harder it is to change its motion (in this case, it takes more work done by the skull on the disc to stop its flight). That "more work" is equivalent to "more skull damage".

 

[Roy]

If I pick off some guy walking down the fairway, am I going to do any less damage with a 150g disc?

Yes. Mass = Inertia, which is a measure of how difficult it is to change an object's motion. The more massive an object, the harder it is to change its motion (in this case, it takes more work done by the skull on the disc to stop its flight). That "more work" is equivalent to "more skull damage".

I understand the physics of it smashing into someones skull. It's just pretty dumb IMO.

Why not use 125g discs? That would be safer than a 150.

Do they have lighter baseballs? lighter automobiles? lighter pom poms? You get the point.

 

[ChUcKyZ]

I understand the physics of it smashing into someones skull. It's just pretty dumb IMO.

It's not dumb. It's the real-life application of Newton's 3 Laws.

Why not use 125g discs? That would be safer than a 150.

Policymakers in Japan probably decided that 150 was the lightest max weight they could enforce while still keeping the game interesting. If they made the restrictions even lighter the game would lose its appeal and Japan would miss out on participating in the PDGA. That small island is not like Wisconsin, Roy. It is an incredibly crowded country. The days at the the park, when you think it's almost too crowded to golf, that's probably what it's like at 9:00 AM on Monday on a DG course in Tokyo.

Japan, collectively, is a whole hell of a lot smarter than you- it isn't just some "dumb IMO" oversight.

 

[SkaBob]

Most of Japan's courses are in regularly used public parks.

The 150 class rule was brought into effect after someone got beaned in the noggin with a disc at one of the Imperial Gardens, if I recall correctly. High visibility injury.

I like the rule, except with the advent of faster and faster discs, I'm not sure it's having the same effect as originally intended. I'm pretty sure if I nail someone with a 150 flick or Boss at full speed, it's going to do as much damage (or more) to them as a 174g XL at cruising speed...Still, the rule should stand.

 

[some call me...tim?]

I think Roy's point was more "is a 175 g disc really going to do that much more damage than a 159.9 g disc?" It's a rule that smells of oblivious bureaucracy if you ask me. But hey, whatever, I like throwing 150 class stuff.

I don't think he was criticizing the culture, only the rule. But just because something is Japanese doesn't necessarily mean it's a good idea. :wink:

 

[ChUcKyZ]

I like the rule, except with the advent of faster and faster discs, I'm not sure it's having the same effect as originally intended. I'm pretty sure if I nail someone with a 150 flick or Boss at full speed, it's going to do as much damage (or more) to them as a 174g XL at cruising speed...Still, the rule should stand.

That's a good point. I suppose an added speed restriction would be in a similar vein as the weight restriction. There's probably a few folks here at DGR who would expatriate like Feivel Mousekewitz to a land where there are no speed 13 discs and the streets are paved with cheese.

Still, a 150 boss will do less damage than a 175 boss at equal velocities.

I wonder what the Superclass scene is like over there...Chuck Kennedy? I bet that's where Lid Golf could really be a hit.

 

[Roy]

I understand the physics of it smashing into someones skull. It's just pretty dumb IMO.

It's not dumb. It's the real-life application of Newton's 3 Laws.

Why not use 125g discs? That would be safer than a 150.

Policymakers in Japan probably decided that 150 was the lightest max weight they could enforce while still keeping the game interesting. If they made the restrictions even lighter the game would lose its appeal and Japan would miss out on participating in the PDGA. That small island is not like Wisconsin, Roy. It is an incredibly crowded country. The days at the the park, when you think it's almost too crowded to golf, that's probably what it's like at 9:00 AM on Monday on a DG course in Tokyo.

Japan, collectively, is a whole hell of a lot smarter than you- it isn't just some "dumb IMO" oversight.

Ok Captain Condescending...

1. Again, I understand the physics of it. I am not aguing with Newtons discoveries here... I think the rule is dumb and citing safety concerns even dumber.

2. I understand that Japan is an island, Chuck. I also understand that it not in Wisconsin. I hear its actually somewhere past Minnesota.

3. Japan is not as crowded as you make it seem. There are crowded parts and not crowded parts. It's actually getting less crowded by the day. You sound like you disc there all the time...?

4. I never implied that I was smarter than Japan as a whole. I will say that Japans policy makers have bigger things to regulate than the weight of a frisbee.

Maybe I missed reading about the pile of lives saved by this rule, but I still think it's a dumb.

 

[Frank Delicious]

They had to set a rule somewhere and they decided 150 was a good compromise on the weight. Most discs can still perform as they were intended at that weight.

 

[Gator]

*rumor alert* I was giving an old board member of the PDGA a ride home after a tourney and we got on the topic of why Japan uses 150 discs. He made comments about Innova having a large role in it, in an attempt to sell more of their 150 class discs.

 

[Roy]

Didn't Chuck K say that it was going to be changed to 159.9?

 

[Timko]

Didn't Chuck K say that it was going to be changed to 159.9?

Yes.