[Innova] INNOVA Naming mistakes/mold change without a name change

[Three Putt]

This is so true.

If Dave Dunipace or even somebody like Mark Molner wanted to do a write up on this, it would be worth it. Otherwise it's a bunch of "I heard" rumors that we really don't know for sure.

I heard and repeated the "broke the San Marino Roc mold moving into the Ontario plant" story a bunch of times until I stopped and thought about it one day a realized that the Ontario tooling discs started showing up in '89-'90ish and they made San Marino Rocs until about '94. That right there clued me in that the story made no sense and maybe I had no idea what I was talking about. Brian Mace said on a USDGC broadcast a few years ago that Dave D told him the mold just wore out from years of shooting hot plastic into it. That is the version I tend to believe now, but I don't know if that is true either. It's just something I heard Maceman say one day.

Pretty much I've come to believe that I don't know 1/2 of what I think I know, and what I think I know is just a tiny fraction of what really goes on. I don't work there, so I don't really know.

 

[Frank Delicious]

Brian Mace said on a USDGC broadcast a few years ago that Dave D told him the mold just wore out from years of shooting hot plastic into it. That is the version I tend to believe now, but I don't know if that is true either.

This seems truer anyway since Innova has to get other molds remade sometimes because they wear out*.

*see the big deal with CAL and CA tooled teebirds now.

 

[elnino]

i am trying to talk to Innova directly to find out the info.

seems like alot of the info is correct also seems like molds do get old and when they are remade they have different tooling but are the same disc.

I think this thread really just points out some:
Real love of certain molds
Real love of certain plastic
Real love of pearly discs(rolleyes)
QC issues are actually very rare for Innova
Name issues
Tweaking mold without renaming(this here was my goal in the beginning)

so i will contact the makers and ask for this info. maybe we can get the correct info from them. They do seem willing to help solve this confusion so this will make everybody super happy.

 

[NateDiscFlip]

I advocate for the Thick Edged Champion FrankenValk's...better mold, as it is still the valkyrie, but holds up to a more aggressive thrower.

 

[Frank Delicious]

QC issues are actually very rare for Innova

lol, what?

 

[NateDiscFlip]

Valk did change when the viking came out. It went from being labeled as a VK to a VL and the wing changed as well. I strongly believe the old valk is what the viking is now and maybe they had an "L" version that became the new valk.

Totally true Bill. Just checked, and the VL is what's on my disc. Love 'em. Truly a goto disc if you like fast, str8, and understable/ with added stability for bigger arms or more aggressive str8 shots.

 

[Frank Delicious]

Truly a goto disc if you like fast, str8, and understable/ with added stability for bigger arms or more aggressive str8 shots.

This sentence literally makes no sense and contradicts itself.

Maybe I am just misunderstanding you, I mean you did type "str8" a couple of times and I'm not down with the Sk8 Boi talk. What disc are you talking about?

 

[The dude on the bike]

Maybe he's a baller.

 

[Bubbajoe]

This seems as good a place as any to bring this up. Concening DX Gators, has there been any changes made to the top recently? Compare the two in the photo below:

Notice how square the top of the wing (or sholder I call it) is compaired to the one on the left. It's essentially the same shape as the star gators I've held.
Does any one know if this is the result of a mold change? or just how one run came out for what ever reason.

sorry for the photo quality. My iphone is the only digital camera I own.

Thanks in advance for the help!

 

[elnino]

Here we go again

i'm updating this anyhow

First the Bad---correct me at anytime and i'll update the list at the top with info
Valkyrie-i didn't know but the early ones might have been VK and now they are L molded or VL
Eagle X and L but no way to tell from stamps
Boss pro/r pro different mold than champ star xg
Roc R plus, ontario, SM, Rancho, 11x, 10x, 8x
Beast old mold new mold
Aviar way too many molds/types to have the same name
Firebirds- okay the plastic made the disc mold up different but now the tooling on the firebirds(ie asian opens are different) www.com now
Starfire- i think pro starfires made a big fu nad went L mold
Teerex- so this has several molds, tooling all the same but mold different X is current mold.
teebird-With what we currently know as the TeeBird, you have two different wings (that I don't think are truly different aside from the tooling), the 'I'nnova CA tooled (11X KC Pro, later 11X, and 12X) and the 'l'nnova CAL (CE, 9 & 10X KC Pro, and early 11X). TLs also have this wing tooling variation, but I'm not sure what runs comprised each wing. There is also the TeeBird+ which unfortunately is part of the same family despite being completely different as well.
FL see firebird or pro firebird newer ones are fl
SL see starfire the pro change
TL see teebird, CE teebirds are tls sometimes
Whippet has X mold too right?
teebird plus groan!
Rhyno Rancho's, San Marino's, and Ontario's but the mold didn't change.
Gator with and without bead right
Classic Roc it is named roc so confusing to people
Monster There is a monster x and l.
Gazelle
Cheetah
Cobra
Stingray
Sidewinder appears the star champs changed with spacer added to copy LS
Coyote- old mold and new mold
gremlins but theyre cfr and only in star plastic maybe Dx no beads too.
Viper...the DX Viper is the normal mold, but the CFR (Champion) Viper is an X-mold. The wing is thicker at the very edge.
Wraith and the wraithX assume they are augusta wraiths
Destroyer NEW TO THE LIST!!!!


The good molds-one name one mold
xcaliber
Groove hahahaha
Katana
Monarch
Orc
Max
Viking
Rdrunner
Archangel...is there another mold of this
Dragon
Banshee
Leopard
Spider
Cro
Skeeter
Mako
Panther
Kite
Shark
Pig
Hydra
Aero
Dart- retooled goblin but they changed the name so it is okay.

 

[LeewayeDiscGolf]

There are Valks in plus molds.

 

[nickc]

My friend swears his Star TL Distance driver that he bought new is better than my Star TL Fairway Driver. I tell him it's just a misprint, but god forbid...

I think that's a little bizarre, but that's the only weird Innova mistake I've seen for myself.

 

[:::LSWT:::]

(I nominate this thread for best concept and best thread ever)

A few questions re Innova

With the different plastics does Innova tinker with the mold to attempt to keep the flight characteristics or does the plastic cool differently and cause variations in the mold...I just tend to notice subtle differences in molds across plastics.

The 11x firebird is not as beefy as the 12 x? Is there a way to flatten a 12x firebird?

c'mon opti... quit stallin' and start the official innova disillusionment thread.

you've got peeps chompin' at the bits to start dumpin' on the king of the hill...

 

[elnino]

Necrobump this because of glow gators!!!

First the Bad---correct me at anytime and i'll update the list at the top with info
Valkyrie-i didn't know but the early ones might have been VK and now they are L molded or VL
Eagle X and L but no way to tell from stamps
Boss pro/r pro different mold than champ star xg
Roc R plus, ontario, SM, Rancho, 11x, 10x, 8x
Beast old mold new mold
Aviar way too many molds/types to have the same name
Firebirds- okay the plastic made the disc mold up different but now the tooling on the firebirds(ie asian opens are different) www.com now
Starfire- i think pro starfires made a big fu nad went L mold
Teerex- so this has several molds, tooling all the same but mold different X is current mold.
teebird-With what we currently know as the TeeBird, you have two different wings (that I don't think are truly different aside from the tooling), the 'I'nnova CA tooled (11X KC Pro, later 11X, and 12X) and the 'l'nnova CAL (CE, 9 & 10X KC Pro, and early 11X). TLs also have this wing tooling variation, but I'm not sure what runs comprised each wing. There is also the TeeBird+ which unfortunately is part of the same family despite being completely different as well.
FL see firebird or pro firebird newer ones are fl
SL see starfire the pro change
TL see teebird, CE teebirds are tls sometimes
Whippet has X mold too right?
teebird plus groan!
Rhyno Rancho's, San Marino's, and Ontario's but the mold didn't change.
Gator with and without bead right
Classic Roc it is named roc so confusing to people
Monster There is a monster x and l.
Gazelle
Cheetah
Cobra
Stingray
Sidewinder appears the star champs changed with spacer added to copy LS
Coyote- old mold and new mold
gremlins but theyre cfr and only in star plastic maybe Dx no beads too.
Viper...the DX Viper is the normal mold, but the CFR (Champion) Viper is an X-mold. The wing is thicker at the very edge.
Wraith and the wraithX assume they are augusta wraiths
The good molds-one name one mold
xcaliber
Destroyer molds up different but
Groove hahahaha
Katana
Monarch
Orc
Max
Viking
Rdrunner
Archangel...is there another mold of this
Dragon
Banshee
Leopard
Spider
Cro
Skeeter
Mako
Panther
Kite
Shark
Pig
Hydra
Aero
Dart- retooled goblin but they changed the name so it is okay.

 

[DiscJunkie]

Necrobump this because of glow gators!!!

First the Bad---correct me at anytime and i'll update the list at the top with info
Valkyrie-i didn't know but the early ones might have been VK and now they are L molded or VL
Eagle X and L but no way to tell from stamps Different mold from the original Eagle - first beveled disc
Boss pro/r pro different mold than champ star xg
Roc R plus, ontario, SM, Rancho, 11x, 10x, 8x
Beast old mold new mold
Aviar way too many molds/types to have the same name
Firebirds- okay the plastic made the disc mold up different but now the tooling on the firebirds(ie asian opens are different) www.com now
Starfire- i think pro starfires made a big fu nad went L mold
Starfire, SL's and Pros in L mold, Stars and Champs in X mold
Teerex- so this has several molds, tooling all the same but mold different X is current mold.
teebird-With what we currently know as the TeeBird, you have two different wings (that I don't think are truly different aside from the tooling), the 'I'nnova CA tooled (11X KC Pro, later 11X, and 12X) and the 'l'nnova CAL (CE, 9 & 10X KC Pro, and early 11X). TLs also have this wing tooling variation, but I'm not sure what runs comprised each wing. There is also the TeeBird+ which unfortunately is part of the same family despite being completely different as well.
FL see firebird or pro firebird newer ones are fl
SL see starfire the pro change
TL see teebird, CE teebirds are tls sometimes
Whippet has X mold too right?Yes
teebird plus groan!
Rhyno Rancho's, San Marino's, and Ontario's but the mold didn't change.
Gator with and without bead right
Classic Roc it is named roc so confusing to people
Monster There is a monster x and l.
Gazelle
Cheetah, I have seen three distinct toolings; Old CAL + Patent#, new CAL + WWW, and CA + WWW
Cobra, Old mold "Classic" Cobras re-issued in Star only, but there are two distinct Cobra molds - old and new
Stingray, These have three molds, San Marino, Ontario and WWW - long story
Sidewinder appears the star champs changed with spacer added to copy LS
Coyote- old mold and new mold
gremlins but theyre cfr and only in star plastic maybe Dx no beads too.
Viper...the DX Viper is the normal mold, but the CFR (Champion) Viper is an X-mold. The wing is thicker at the very edge.
Wraith and the wraithX assume they are augusta wraiths
The good molds-one name one mold
xcaliber
Destroyer molds up different but
Groove hahahaha
Katana
Monarch
Orc
Max
Viking
Rdrunner
Archangel...is there another mold of this
Dragon
Banshee
Leopard
Spider
Cro
Skeeter
Mako
Panther
Kite
Shark
Pig
Hydra
Aero, I believe that this was the original Eagle mold - first beveled disc
Dart- retooled goblin but they changed the name so it is okay.

Some additions FWIW

 

[elnino]

yeah i also heard the 2003 starfires are called the starfire old mold....as in there are three of them.

First the Bad---correct me at anytime and i'll update the list at the top with info
Valkyrie-i didn't know but the early ones might have been VK and now they are L molded or VL
Eagle X and L but no way to tell from stamps Different mold from the original Eagle - first beveled disc
Boss pro/r pro different mold than champ star xg
Roc R plus, ontario, SM, Rancho, 11x, 10x, 8x
Beast old mold new mold
Aviar way too many molds/types to have the same name
Firebirds- okay the plastic made the disc mold up different but now the tooling on the firebirds(ie asian opens are different) www.com now
Starfire- i think pro starfires made a big fu nad went L mold
Starfire, SL's and Pros in L mold, Stars and Champs in X mold
Teerex- so this has several molds, tooling all the same but mold different X is current mold.
teebird-With what we currently know as the TeeBird, you have two different wings (that I don't think are truly different aside from the tooling), the 'I'nnova CA tooled (11X KC Pro, later 11X, and 12X) and the 'l'nnova CAL (CE, 9 & 10X KC Pro, and early 11X). TLs also have this wing tooling variation, but I'm not sure what runs comprised each wing. There is also the TeeBird+ which unfortunately is part of the same family despite being completely different as well.
FL see firebird or pro firebird newer ones are fl
SL see starfire the pro change
TL see teebird, CE teebirds are tls sometimes
Whippet has X mold too right?Yes
teebird plus groan!
Rhyno Rancho's, San Marino's, and Ontario's but the mold didn't change.
Gator with and without bead right
Classic Roc it is named roc so confusing to people
Monster There is a monster x and l.
Gazelle
Cheetah, I have seen three distinct toolings; Old CAL + Patent#, new CAL + WWW, and CA + WWW
Cobra, Old mold "Classic" Cobras re-issued in Star only, but there are two distinct Cobra molds - old and new
Stingray, These have three molds, San Marino, Ontario and WWW - long story
Sidewinder appears the star champs changed with spacer added to copy LS
Coyote- old mold and new mold
gremlins but theyre cfr and only in star plastic maybe Dx no beads too.
Viper...the DX Viper is the normal mold, but the CFR (Champion) Viper is an X-mold. The wing is thicker at the very edge.
Wraith and the wraithX assume they are augusta wraiths
The good molds-one name one mold
xcaliber
Destroyer molds up different but
Groove hahahaha
Katana
Monarch
Orc
Max
Viking
Rdrunner
Archangel...is there another mold of this
Dragon
Banshee
Leopard
Spider
Cro
Skeeter
Mako
Panther
Kite
Shark
Pig
Hydra
Aero, I believe that this was the original Eagle mold - first beveled disc
Dart- retooled goblin but they changed the name so it is okay.

 

[prerube]

the dart is the gremlin, just renamed

I was told it was a goblin, not gremlin, but you are the new Marshall Street expert.

WOW I was late to the game here..ooops

 

[codyroberts18]

I thought Goblin too...

 

[Plankeye]

the dart is the goblin

 

[`cjc]

There is a monster x and l.

..yep