Is there a downside to DX plastic besides wear?

[tram]

This is actually a follow up to the "What's the beef with champion plastic" thread. I just didn't want to end up on the fifth page. According to Blake in his article on plastic he's says discs in DX "are the easiest to throw, have the most glide, and give the best grip during increment weather." It's seems the only disadvantage is durability, especially with wide rim discs like the orc.

But something occurred to me. Imagine you're a pro. You can get any disc you want and as many as you want. Why on earth would you get a premium plastic disc when DX rules supreme (Outside of the very limited exceptions presented in the previous thread)? Yet if you check what's in the bag of pros, you'll find a lot of premium plastic from drivers to putters. Not to say they don't have DX too, but they're selection will differ than the logic of these forums.

So here's my question. Does the logic of "DX plastic is better most of the time" apply only to amateurs? Is premium plastic reserved for pros? Does it get better than DX once you've improved? Or am I missing something?

This question is for the fans of DX, NOT the fans of champion.

 

[nearly zer0]

pros are sponsered by disc companies. they have to (within reason) throw the latest and greatest. premium plastics have much more margin than d/dx

 

[Parks]

That can't entirely be true, because some Pros throw a lot of discontinued stuff (Climo's CE Firebirds, Doss's Hawks). Not exactly the latest and greatest

Also, Pros deviate often from Blake's advice. I was looking at a pro's bag, I think Ron Russell's, and he has a ton of different molds. He's not the only one.

 

[TLapham]

Do what works for you. I personally like throwing less molds as it pretty much takes decision making out of the picture. Couple guys I play with throw a ton of molds and tried less and couldn't get certain discs to do certain shots. No one can tell you what to throw without actually seeing you throw. I also don't like DX plastic, I don't like how it comes out of the hand, tacos when it hits a tree and the gauges in the side of the rim annoy me to no end.

 

[some call me...tim?]

Yeah, I know Feldberg carries an ass load of discs with him...both compartments of his Revo backpack are bursting at the seams with discs. I didn't inspect his bag to see what all he had, but it mostly looked like star plastic, and I'm sure he has quite a few molds in there. He lists CE Firebirds, KC Teebirds and CE Eagles as favorite discs, so it doesn't look like he's big on the DX either. On the other hand though, I've talked to plenty experienced players that say they still like the feel of DX the best. I'd say it all boils down to personal preference, and Blake happens to like DX the best and has his reasons for it, hence that's what he recommends to everyone (and he puts together a compelling argument).

 

[Parks]

Exactly. There are many general rules in disc golf that apply to most if not everyone.

However, in the end it comes down to doing what works for you. And if there does happen to be good advice that would save strokes, then its your own fault if you don't follow that advice

 

[Jerry r]

Stupid cartoonish stamps

 

[adamschneider]

Stupid cartoonish stamps

Hear hear. I'd never throw an Orc if the Star or Champ versions had that artwork on them .

 

[roadkill1]

While I'm not a touring pro I've competed in the Open division for many years with a few victories and many top 5 finishes.

I have always preferred DX plastic. This is especially true for by bread and butter money discs ie. putter, go to mids and finesse short drivers.

I do carry a couple candy discs. One is a Champion Orc and the other a Champion Valk but pretty much everything else that has been in my bag over the past few years is DX.

Two reasons I greatly prefer dx

1. Feel- There's no way you can get the same feel with the current candy or even pro plastic. Some may disagree but this is my belief.

2. Flight characteristics- Dx discs season nicely. Once broken to desired stability they become magic. I have tried to season candy and pro models but have had no consistent success. Dx discs are useful in varying stages of wear but I've found that candy discs just don't have as controllable flights as dx even after broken in.

 

[garublador1]

Most of what is ensorsed on this site is geared twards players learning the game. It's much easier to learn different shots and learn technique with low end plastic. One thing that their bags don't show is that many of them played with low end plastic for years and years before anyting else was even an option.

Once you have "big snap," have a wide varieity of shots at your disposal and have built up your consistancy then worrying about things like disc overlap, extra glide and how forgiving discs are is much less important. You'll also be throwing hard enough that hitting things will be much more catastrophic to your discs than anything that most of us can muster.

 

[roadkill1]

Stupid cartoonish stamps

Yeah, I'll go along with that.

I just bought 5 goblins. I hate the dumb stamp (actually I'm not crazy about the name for that matter), but while I prefer the protostamped ones I can't justify paying double the price just for the hotstamp.

The whole cartoon picture stamp crap is the recent trend. Back in the 80s and 90s most stamps were just the name and the pictures that were present were predominantly animals. (panther,gazelle,leopard,roc bird, viper,gator, moray,spider,etc)

 

[ambiguous]

Seems to me that if you're playing tournaments every weekend to make a living you'll want something to throw that stays consistent throw to throw throughout a tournament. Especially in a wooded course where a dx driver can get destroyed.

 

[BearDin1]

I find dx is great for slower discs. Mid-range and putters. Potentially a fairway driver, but drivers going fast and hitting trees is not very good for getting a solid idea as to how the disc will behave.

Seasoned mid-ranges in DX offer you something that I have yet to see any higher end plastic allow you to achieve: A nice smooth slow anhyzer line with flat release, or a nice slow, straight, little fade shot thrown with slight hyzer.

Again, everything depends on your throwing style and speed and other characteristics of your throw, but regardless, higher end plastics, in my mind, don't offer nearly as close to as many possibilities in disc flight when it comes to these slower discs.

So slow -> DX, but also high end for what you want to maintain its stability and integrity. Every disc will eventually season. Some you may not want to. It's fine how it is. Its okay to have a couple DX drivers if you play on a more open course, but I would say, overall, higher end plastic is where it's at for most drivers, especially the bombers. Maintaining integrity longer is why you pay more. More consistent throws.

Obviously, everyone's different, so who knows?

 

[the invisible tree]

The wear is an upside of dx plastic for me.

 

[Blake_T1]

my dx advice is towards people who are in the developing stages of their game.

high level players who can exert total mastery of nearly any disc in any plastic are exempt. these are the same guys that hit trees MUCH harder than the average player and generally play many many rounds. the majority (but not all) of them LEARNED to play when DX was really the only option.

someone who cannot throw a very late turning hyzer flip s-curve and manipulate whether they want it to finish penetrating nose down or with a slight stall and dump left and WANTS to exert that kind of disc control isn't going to be able to learn it with champ/z plastic.

think Ron Russell's, and he has a ton of different molds.

the staples of Ron's game were the cyclone, comet, and magnet. he did add the flash later on.

 

[JR]

This is just pure speculation based on not knowing any pros and their thinking processes. Would it seem logical that pros limit the amount of discs they carry by having multiple dx discs in different stages of wear for different purposes only with some few molds for specialty shots that can't be achieved with premium plastic at all or with as much consistency? If true then would it be logical to carry few premium discs for less critical throws flight line wise that also the dx discs could perform? Thus limiting the amount of throws with dx discs and sparing them for what can't be accomplished with premium plastic. Wouldn't it be logical to use premium discs for high risk max speed throws with risk meaning great probability of hitting obstacles at speeds that damage dx? The faster the flight the more dx needs to be protected. Since control drivers do need best possbile flight properties they need to have soft plastic. That brings in high speeds and fairly small noses that are susceptible to taking damage easily at high power levels. It may not be a problem for deevloping players though. So the answer to when to use dx varies on the thrower and what their pirority is. If money is no object one could use dx for max D and every other role as well. This doesn't suit nearly anyone so you'll just have to juggle the facts to find your own solutiion based on where you throw, how you throw and how accurate and consistent you are and what your throwing skills are with soft vs hard plastic.

For me a Quest T-bone SRP seems nice plastic wise. If it really is durable and resembles a Teebird in flight. If the plastic is premium in durability I have high hopes for this one. The Plastic has better traction than my dx Teebird. It seems to be softer plastic than current dx based on how easily it bent on a tree hit.

 

[Blake_T1]

most pros carry standard plastic putters and midranges, the exception being buzzz throwers. if people throw rocs and aviars they are generally kc/dx.

most top pros are good enough to know how to "work" a disc to nearly any line. however, if you see their "go to" discs, they are generally something fairly old in design and time tested.

most innova pros carry wraiths/orcs, but they still carry a champ teebird and champ firebird for when they absolutely, positively need to know where something is going to go.

i don't know a single top pro that uses a champ roc as a key part of their bag.

something also to keep in mind is that most big throwing pros NEED the extra stability that upper grades of plastic provide. discs fly completely differently for someone who can throw 480' vs. someone who can throw 380'.

the last thing to keep in mind is that pro sponsorship stipends generally are a disc number and has nothing to do with what grade of plastic is in. it makes more financial sense to choose all champ/star discs even if just to sell/trade towards standard/mid plastic putters/midranges.

 

[cmlasley]

The only downside I have seen to DX is discs cracking in half in cold weather. I have never seen that with the upper grades. Unfortunately, the better plastics suck for grip in the cold.

 

[JR]

The only downside I have seen to DX is discs cracking in half in cold weather. I have never seen that with the upper grades. Unfortunately, the better plastics suck for grip in the cold.

Well worn almost two years old Champion Valkyrie max weight hit a a sharp obstacle at close range at -17C last winter and I have two halves to prove it :-(

 

[tushamajig131]

Im going to resonate the approach that dx plastic is great for putters, mids, and fairway drivers. However, for distance, I just prefer premium plastic because in these woods of MA, I want my distance drivers to hold their characteristics for as long as possible. Now dont get me wrong, I do have a couple dx orcs and valks, but I only pull them out for wide wide open shots with no danger of damage, which number very few here.

However, Ive been messing around with teebirds lately, and only in dx, I mainly throw dx leopards as control drivers, dx rocs and one kc roc are my mid arsenal with an occaisional dx classic roc, and my putters are all base-grade plastic. After that, champ/star orcs, z flick, and a couple champ sidewinders (all distance drivers)