[Latitude] LAT64 disillusionment

[nickc]

I love out Lat64's feel, especially the Pure. Unfortunately I can't afford those discs yet, and I am lacking good trades for such discs, but I love my brother's. They're great discs, and he has like 10 or 11 of them.

I think the "hate" for them comes from people not realizing that they're actually more technical discs than people take them for. I mean, take the Pain for example. Pretty overstable, but it's not made to be thrown as hard as possible. Same as the Vision, but that's super understable. I can throw that disc on a huge anhyzer without even really trying to do it. Sure there's more in between, but I feel those are some pretty good examples. Then there's the Blitz, which is a super overstable driver. That thing flies on a huge hyzer if you don't throw it super hard.

 

[Mr. America]

I've never thrown a Lat64, but I have the Westside Sword that I won from Clear Water. It's a meat hook for me, but the plastic seems superior or as good as Innova and Discraft. All the Euro plastic seems so nice.

Not calling out anybody specifically, but I love it when people say that a certain single specific example of a disc they own is "inconsistent". What they really mean is that their form is so inconsistent that it translates to the disc.

 

[nickc]

I believe that two of the same discs won't fly the same. It bugs me when people say "I had that disc, and it was pretty good, and then I had another one and it sucked, so inconsistent." It's like, even if their form is consistent, and it really is the disc, TWO discs of the same kind aren't the same disc.

Even the color can change the flight. Go figure, darker colors absorb more sunlight, lighter colors reflect more. Which color is more likely to be a little more soft on a hot day? The darker color. Same with the weights, a 175 and a 174 aren't going to be completely the same. Even more drastic with say a 175 and a 170. The 170 is probably going to have a bit more glide to it.

Also, take into consideration the dome vs. flat discs. The domed disc is going to float more and the flat disc is going to be more aerodynamic.

Then the weather conditions, and the inconsistent, crappy throws.

So basically, there you go. All the reasons on why you're an idiot if you call two discs inconsistent. I have two Avenger SS Elite Z's. One is a 168 and pretty new, the other is a 174 and a little older. The 174 cuts through wind a lot better and doesn't get blown around as much as the 168. The 168 is significantly more understable, even though they're the same mold, and the 174 is much more beaten in.

 

[DonKnottsRoc]

LAT64 guys appear to have drunk the Swedish Kool Aid

Many Lat64 discs get sneaky distance from extended glide...it's true...and many conditions and players don't mix well with such glidey goodness

Lat64 burst on the scene with opto plastic which was great but many would never throw it out of fear of losing it...then they came out with their INITIAL GL plastic which were dull and camouflaged with most environments...like it or not theres still a bunch of this stuff on the shelves....I have yet to see anything neon pink like DC or brighter greens/oranges like Innova.....I might live in a vacumn...just have yet to see it

I never said Lat64 was inferior I merely stated that I noticed it went in and out of a lot player's bags...one guy I know went and got rid of all his Innova and went straight L64 then he sold all his L64 and went back to Innova.....that's what inspired the thread.

I agree with discspeed...I remember experienced players bitching about the slick champion plastic that never broke in, slipped out of their hands, was awful in the rain, tough to spot due to being clearish...blah blah blah.....I think many have a comfort zone and might try something new out due to hype and curiousity but realize that it is much different than what they are comfortable with and go back to what they know

I remember trading in an ION at the NATI disc golf shoppe in Cincinnati Ohio, the guys behind the desk almost mocked me for trading in this weird looking thing that wasnt even a disc golf disc....

they were looking at each other chuckling like I was some idiot trying to get store credit for trading in a beach frisbee. I gave up and held onto the ION and returned to the store I bought it from in PA. So I can see that even the most expertise out there might not realize what they are missing out on. I made a decision to stick with one brand to alleviate confusion and keep costs down (my area is infamous for lost discs)...might seem silly but I was going broke. So I have not tested all of the swedish plastic.

lie.

 

[eegor]

NickC,

There are inconsistent molds. A heavy River and a light River are literally two different discs. However, a heavy River will fly like a heavy River... when you buy a new one. The light ones are that way too.

Then there's the Groove. I really wish they were consistent, because I once owned a very nice one. It was my main forehand driver and I loved that disc. I wish I had it today... alas, though I've had 5 at the same weight since, they weren't close (not even to each other). In fact, they were all over the place. I never knew where they were going when I released them. I'm a believer in the archer, not the arrow... but the Groove is... as the great sage Frank D once wrote... "Every Groove is a unique snowflake of suck".

In conclusion, there are "inconsistent" discs... from dubious manufacturers (i.e. Gateway). Reality is reality.

 

[optidiscic]

I'm pretty sure I complimented lat64 more than my jokes about them in this thread

Ive learned some things about the current state of lat64...mostly good stuff

I have also learned that lat64 has an almost cult like following that is easily offended

for the record the Nati story is true although fred salaz was not there at the time

it's threads like this that make me wanna troll cause you guys are insane in your defense

 

[jrawk]

There are inconsistent molds. A heavy River and a light River are literally two different discs. However, a heavy River will fly like a heavy River... when you buy a new one. The light ones are that way too.

That not inconsistency. That's scalability. And a big advantage in mold design IMHO.

 

[Yankeecock]

I've had the havok, striker, and flow all in the gold line plastic and the river in the opto. My beef with lat64 is I love the feel of the gold line (I am a star/ ESP type guy in other brands) but that plastic seems to beat in much quicker than other brands premium plastic. I loved throwing those discs right out of the box because they all threw how lat64 said they would but it didn't take long to drastically change the flight after hitting a few trees. Now with the river I found I would get one great shot followed by two bad ones it seemed...it would pop up higher than I wanted and fade out more than I wanted. I'm still trying to work with this one but for the shot I need it for I find my old champ leopard or my vibram trak to be much more consistent

 

[xJFK]

GL != Star/ESP

 

[joshuajames]

That not inconsistency. That's scalability. And a big advantage in mold design IMHO.

That's why I carry light and heavy rivers! :thmbup:

 

[Aim For The Chains]

I've had the havok, striker, and flow all in the gold line plastic and the river in the opto. My beef with lat64 is I love the feel of the gold line (I am a star/ ESP type guy in other brands) but that plastic seems to beat in much quicker than other brands premium plastic. I loved throwing those discs right out of the box because they all threw how lat64 said they would but it didn't take long to drastically change the flight after hitting a few trees. Now with the river I found I would get one great shot followed by two bad ones it seemed...it would pop up higher than I wanted and fade out more than I wanted. I'm still trying to work with this one but for the shot I need it for I find my old champ leopard or my vibram trak to be much more consistent

GL was designed to break-in and known as the understable molds like DX vs champ etc but the quality of plastic is still much more superior than those other lower grade less stable types. Get opto plastic which is much more durable than GL and hold the designed flight much longer (specially 170g+) if you have issues with a disc breaking in-- No other company makes a disc which holds its true stability forever but the Lat. opto and grip lines seem to always fly how they were designed, just tends to get slightly easier to control once worn down where GL will get understable like you said.

 

[joshuajames]

I am officially done with this thread.
It was started on a whim (that the op somehow feels is popular/universal) with barely any concrete complaints or reasons for the "disillusionment"
It was substantiated; somewhat, after people complained about it.
And the op has 'defended' it by inferring that anyone questioning his hollow assumptions is a L64 zealot whose reason has been lost to "swedish kool aid"
I throw 7-8 brands FWIW. I throw what works for me.
Currently I much prefer Westside's high speeds (King and Sword) so I guess I had some Finnish Kool Aid too? And I still throw MVP, Innova Eagle X, Teebird, Dart, Aviar and Champ Cobra (which couldn't be kicked out by the LAT64 Fuse btw). I have preferences, but I have arrived at my preferences by reasonable means.

NOOOOoooooooo....... don't go!
opcorn:

 

[optidiscic]

Optidisic comments in quotes

"LAT64 guys appear to have drunk the Swedish Kool Aid"
Yep; grape opto purple, in my case, delicious.
I think the blind fanboy reactionism speaks for itself in this thread

"Many Lat64 discs get sneaky distance from extended glide."
And that's bad...but only if you somehow can't adjust to it.
or bad on a windy day, bad if throwing off a hill, maybe you live in a windless vacuumn

"one guy I know went and got rid of all his Innova and went straight L64 then he sold all his L64 and went back to Innova.....that's what inspired the thread."
Yeah, ^ that's what I thought: an 'army of one'
actually that was one example that finally prompted me to start the thread but we were actually discussing how many players tried em and went back to basics...like the 990 rated pro who went back to roadrunners after losing his vision opto too many times or the 1000 rated who throws and not to mention the multitudes of others

"but many would never throw it out of fear of losing it."
Lemme guess: 'many' is you and that 'one guy you know'.
no like I said it was a discussion (we discuss things when we play we don't get all internet defensive tuff guy) between a bunch of disc golfers regarding not liking the clear and autumn colored discs


"I have yet to see anything neon pink like DC or brighter greens/oranges like Innova.....I might live in a vacumn...just have yet to see it"

Here are just a few of the newer colors that are on ebunk...not to mention USA dealers
it's official: you live in a vacuum (2 u's, no n)
the following list proves that there are many sellers who obviously have decided to not throw these discs and oddly many are leaf colored orange, green, red, and only a handful are brightish but nothing remotely bright as discraft or Innova

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Disc-Golf-N...ultDomain_0&hash=item5645ede2d9#ht_652wt_1163

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Latitude-64...ultDomain_0&hash=item3a6a57408d#ht_500wt_1180

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-OPTO-RI...ltDomain_0&hash=item27b92fd188#ht_1325wt_1163

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-OPTO-HA...ltDomain_0&hash=item2a0ea52476#ht_1325wt_1163

http://www.ebay.com/itm/172g-Latitu...ultDomain_0&hash=item1c1d3d245b#ht_500wt_1180

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-OPTO-RI...ltDomain_0&hash=item27b931a569#ht_1325wt_1163

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-GOLD-CO...ltDomain_0&hash=item2a10e696d4#ht_1018wt_1163

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Latitude-64...ultDomain_0&hash=item3a682e14b4#ht_500wt_1180

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-OPTO-VI...ltDomain_0&hash=item27bd6856ab#ht_1018wt_1163

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LATITUDE-64...ultDomain_0&hash=item45fbf924d6#ht_624wt_1163

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-OPTO-VI...ltDomain_0&hash=item2a132484f9#ht_1018wt_1163

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-OPTO-PA...ltDomain_0&hash=item27bae5ba73#ht_1018wt_1163

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LATITUDE-64...ultDomain_0&hash=item19c6a154ac#ht_500wt_1180

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-OPTO-XX...ltDomain_0&hash=item27b9300b7b#ht_1325wt_1163

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-OPTO-KI...ultDomain_0&hash=item27bb4c7b55#ht_500wt_1180

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-OPTO-KI...ultDomain_0&hash=item27bb4c7ed1#ht_500wt_1180

I was out playing disc golf while this thread became everyone gang up on the non-conformist...well I might have been maintaining or building a course....again I never meant to bash Lat64 they make unique and interesting discs and the xXx and pure seem to be hits.....but like any company they are gonna have their hits and misses....being a blind fanboy and loyal is a fault

 

[discspeed]

I think part of the reaction this thread got was because of your semantics Opti. Disillusion suggests that those who enjoy Lat64 discs are somehow fooling themselves or under some illusion that the discs perform for them. If you would have titled the thread "Lat64...I just don't get it", or "Lat64...good, but not good enough to pull me away from my other discs yet", or something else like that it would have unfolded very differently.

 

[Technohic]

BTW, since we are talking about Lat64 here and at one time I struggled with where the River fit; do you guys consider it understable or just Neutral?

I'm just curious because when I first tried the River, I had a DX Teebird/Pro Leopard combo and didn't know what to do. It wasn't as straight or stable as a Teebird and it wasn't as understable as a Leopard. I eventually just used it in place of both in a way, until I later pulled it and went back to the Teebird Leopard combo again, and since then; eventually decided that my ESP Pred thats well broken in was flying super straight and at the same time, I could hyzer-flip the pro Leo to be about as straight with less fade to where I found my Teebirds not necessary.

Now the River returns and I'm not sure the Leopard is needed or not yet and I am also looking at DX Valks I have had as being covered by the Rivers sneaky distance. likely, I will carry DX and Pro Leos and Valks despite overlap, just for a cheaper alternative over water, and probably only when water will be present, but I guess in my "slotting" I just haven't decided where Rivers really sit.

 

[discmeister]

Rivers are tough to place because they are so versatile, regardless of weight. I've thrown GL 163g, 167g, and a 174 Opto. My 167 GL can Hyzer, Anhyzer, or fly straight, with amazing glide, depending on how I throw it. If I don't release it right, it will punish me. So when I'm on, I can use it for everything. When I'm not or it is too windy, then I reach for my Teebird, Eagles, and RR/Vision.

 

[discspeed]

I've been carrying a River for a bit now, and I'm still kind of confused as well. I really like it for shots at the high end of the power spectrum, but I've been having trouble getting the lines I need from it when I back off the power. I'm just having trouble finding the right combination of release power and speed to reign it in. Very rarely am I getting the lines I'm visualizing at this point. If I release it flat it now turns and does not really recover, but adding hyzer is tricky. A touch of hyzer seems to yield nearly the same result as a flat shot. There is a very narrow window in there with a little more hyzer where the disc will turn and fade, but it is elusive. A little more hyzer and the River flies like glide TB...long and straight with a hyzer finish.

So my River is too understable to be thrown flat or to hold a good anhyzer release with power, but not understable enough to be a good turnover disc. It also doesn't glide as well at low to medium speeds to be a touch disc at long mid/short fwy distances for me. With the glide of the Axis and my new found love for the TD, the River could be losing it's spot in my bag...This is nothing new as I've never had a fairway driver in my bag long. I just don't like any of them ultimately. I hope to god MVP changes my mind some day.

 

[Technohic]

@discspeed: See, that seems to be where I took the River out before, but now that I have the Fuse which is sneaky long, that seems to press my Leopard at times as far as distance, and I'm hoping the Axis is similar distance wise as the Fuse, and if thats the case, I see the River being that extra distance I got from distance lines with the Leopard and even Valk while my mids are capable of those control shots. The River, while not as easy to throw as a Leopard, is easier than the Valk though.

It is interesting though. Could be just a matter of my range likely being a good bit shorter than yours.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

I've been carrying a River for a bit now, and I'm still kind of confused as well. I really like it for shots at the high end of the power spectrum, but I've been having trouble getting the lines I need from it when I back off the power. I'm just having trouble finding the right combination of release power and speed to reign it in. Very rarely am I getting the lines I'm visualizing at this point. If I release it flat it now turns and does not really recover, but adding hyzer is tricky. A touch of hyzer seems to yield nearly the same result as a flat shot. There is a very narrow window in there with a little more hyzer where the disc will turn and fade, but it is elusive. A little more hyzer and the River flies like glide TB...long and straight with a hyzer finish.

So my River is too understable to be thrown flat or to hold a good anhyzer release with power, but not understable enough to be a good turnover disc. It also doesn't glide as well at low to medium speeds to be a touch disc at long mid/short fwy distances for me. With the glide of the Axis and my new found love for the TD, the River could be losing it's spot in my bag...This is nothing new as I've never had a fairway driver in my bag long. I just don't like any of them ultimately. I hope to god MVP changes my mind some day.

I also just picked one of these up after hearing from everyone how great of a disc it is... and feel pretty much like you do-- sometimes I am just amazed at the shots I get from it and others I sit and think WTF?! I threw it in a crosswind 500' downhill just for fun (beast, king, even flow turned over waaaaaaay right) and almost parked the hole with the river which left me even MORE confused about this disc. I hate the fact it is like a core in that it sucks once you power down at all and often lately been using my fuse where I THOUGHT the river was going to be my go-to discs. Its a fine driver specially for someone not ready for a flow, striker, etc.

Hopefully this opto flow breaks in a little and becomes a longer fuse but only time will tell and like you said hopefully MVP changes our minds on the fairway discs :hfive: Ion works just as good as the river! lol.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

@discspeed: See, that seems to be where I took the River out before, but now that I have the Fuse which is sneaky long, that seems to press my Leopard at times as far as distance, and I'm hoping the Axis is similar distance wise as the Fuse, and if thats the case, I see the River being that extra distance I got from distance lines with the Leopard and even Valk while my mids are capable of those control shots. The River, while not as easy to throw as a Leopard, is easier than the Valk though.

It is interesting though. Could be just a matter of my range likely being a good bit shorter than yours.

I hope the axis is like a stable fuse too. I keep throwing the fuse longerrrrrr and longer its crazy just busted 415'+ on a beautiful slow anhyzer around a hillside yesterday and am falling more in love daily. Also will agree about a valk- I loved the disc for hyzer flips and straighter turnover shots but river is a little easier just not as easy as a cheetah or leopard.