More Stable vs. More Stability

[Craton]

** DISC NERD ALERT! IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT MINDING YOUR P'S AND Q'S, THIS CONVERSATION IS NOT FOR YOU**​

So I know there is a lot of confusion when talking quantitatively about stability, but I'd really like to have this pinned down. I ran across a description:

"Discmania say this about the PD2:Let's face it - the PD2 Chaos (molded by Innova Champion Discs) is not meant for everyone. Picture Innova's Xcaliber with a little more speed and stability..."

...and it's left me scratching my head. I have understood if a disc is "more stable" that means it is a straighter flying disc.

Situation 1: Usually this makes the most sense when saying something like "A Teebird is a more stable disc than an Archangel," because it has less high speed turn than a disc that's considered understable. Usually about anyone hits this one on the nail, that is if I'm correct in saying so.

Situation 2:You have two teebirds, which are meant to be straight flying, stable drivers. Both full weight, both champ, only difference is one is brand new, the other has had it's fade seasoned out of it. Let's say the older one goes dead straight; no turn, no fade. The new one also goes pretty straight, but has a heavier fade. So I know the the newer one is more overstable, wouldn't the seasoned one be more stable?

Situation 3: What this left me wondering is if you are talking about two overstable discs, and you say "The PD2 has more stability than an Xcalibur", aren't you saying that it actually tends to be a straighter flying disc as opposed to an overstable one? Someone hook me up with some lingo

Sorry if this has been covered a million times, I just am not sure I have ever thought about this in comparing two overstable discs to one another. My final question is this: is there a difference in more stability vs. a disc being more stable?

 

[d-ogg]

though it may be incorrect, most people would consider something like an xcalibur to be more stable than say a leopard. I was confused by this as well when I started playing.

 

[Craton]

though it may be incorrect, most people would consider something like an xcalibur to be more stable than say a leopard. I was confused by this as well when I started playing.

I don't want to know what's incorrect, I probably already am. I want to know what's right- although someone could start another thread about at what point does a word lose it's original meaning if a majority is collectively misusing it in the same way.

 

[Technohic]

#2 if they both have the same HSS, they are equally stable. Fade does not equal stability IMO

The rest is semantics. It depends on if you look at the stability scale as

overstable <-------------------------------->Understable

or

Overstable<--------------Stable------------->Understable

There is not true definition when dealing with arbitrary numbers.

EDIT: And this scale was created for specifically HSS at first as far as I know.

 

[Craton]

#2 if they both have the same HSS, they are equally stable. Fade does not equal stability IMO

The rest is semantics. It depends on if you look at the stability scale as

overstable <-------------------------------->Understable

or

Overstable<--------------Stable------------->Understable

There is not true definition when dealing with arbitrary numbers.

EDIT: And this scale was created for specifically HSS at first as far as I know.

But we use those arbitrary numbers/phrases in order to communicate something, in this situation, the path of a disc. I think those scales helps me a little bit...

What about something like a Beast, whose path consists of a very large S, yet it's usually got just as much fade as turn, and ends up dead straight ahead of you, but has a crazy path on it's way...

 

[Technohic]

But we use those arbitrary numbers/phrases in order to communicate something, in this situation, the path of a disc. I think those scales helps me a little bit...

What about something like a Beast, whose path consists of a very large S, yet it's usually got just as much fade as turn, and ends up dead straight ahead of you, but has a crazy path on it's way...

The best thing to do is to make sure you articulate what you are describing in a way others will understand you. If you know the audience is on the same mindset as you, there's nothing to worry about.

As for describing a Beast. I would either say it is understable but has a good reliable fade at the end. Or just say it has a noticeable turn but comes back just as much when it slows down.

As far as your OP where they kind of assume you are on the same page with their interpretation, just put it in context and usually there are hints to what it means. In this case thats kind of tough but I get a feeling when talking about it not being for everyone and talk about it being faster, I instantly think more overstable.

Few ways to do that actually.

 

[j0atz]

I used to agree with the whole MORE STABLE means straighter...but I have not met a person that has used that phrase and meant straight..they always mean OVERSTABLE. It has made me start saying MORE/REALLY stable when talking about something being beefy.

When you are talking to someone you generally understand what they mean..even if it isn't technically correct.

 

[Craton]

Cool man. I totally agree. I can communicate this totally fine, I just wanted to know what the official way to say it is- but with such a mixed bag of deviations, I probably can't really push for any sort of uniformity. Donka

Also, what was with the basket?

 

[garublador]

I have understood if a disc is "more stable" that means it is a straighter flying disc.

IMO that's the least useful and most confusing way to define what more or less "stable" means. Going by that you could say that a Spirit is just as stable as an Optimizer because neither of them are straight flying discs (the Spirit is very overstable and the Optimizer is very understable). If we always talk about stability as a spectrum of the least stable discs being the most understable and the most stable discs being the most overstable it makes the term it much less confusing. Saying the Spirit is much more stable than the Optimizer at least tells us that they have very different flights.

If you want a word for straight discs use either "straight" or "neutral." It's much less ambiguous than "stable."

 

[pspunch]

is there a difference in more stability vs. a disc being more stable?

i think there's a big difference. they are two very different words, not interchangable in my opinion. "the disc is stable" can't be written "the disc is stability" and mean the same thing. so having more stability, means something different than being more stable.

more stable, imo, means straighter. if a disc has more stability, i'd have to ask if it's overstable or understable to figure out what "more stability" means. to infer that it has "stability," means it's not stable, it's either overstable or understable to some extent.

i suppose you could say a disc had zero stability, but that still doesn't exactly mean it's stable.


ahhh semantics how i love thee

 

[Craton]

If you want a word for straight discs use either "straight" or "neutral." It's much less ambiguous than "stable."

Agreed. 100%. But semantically, it's frustrating because straight/neutral are what stable mean from the get-go. We could just have well been calling them Overneutral, Neutral, and Underneutral; or 1940's Germany, Sweden, France.

 

[dgdrifter]

You just added to it with your avatar. lol

LOL!

 

[dgdrifter]

IMO that's the least useful and most confusing way to define what more or less "stable" means. Going by that you could say that a Spirit is just as stable as an Optimizer because neither of them are straight flying discs (the Spirit is very overstable and the Optimizer is very understable). If we always talk about stability as a spectrum of the least stable discs being the most understable and the most stable discs being the most overstable it makes the term it much less confusing. Saying the Spirit is much more stable than the Optimizer at least tells us that they have very different flights.

If you want a word for straight discs use either "straight" or "neutral." It's much less ambiguous than "stable."

Yes, because understable discs are often referred to as 'straight flying". And they're talking about fade or hyzering out early, in that context.

I like neutral.

 

[Marmoset]

stability is the unit the scale is made up of
stable is a location on the scale

overstable-------stable------understable

00000000000000000000000000000000000

---^---------------^-----------^------
Firebird---------Teebird ------Sidewinder

On the scale above, assuming you throw about 350'+, the Teebird is stable.
The Firebird has about 18 circles worth of more stability units. Or the easier method of saying the same thing is the Firebird has more stability. The Sidewinder has less stability than the Teebird by about 15 stability units. The problem is there is no definition for a stability unit.

 

[Technohic]

i think there's a big difference. they are two very different words, not interchangable in my opinion. "the disc is stable" can't be written "the disc is stability" and mean the same thing. so having more stability, means something different than being more stable.

more stable, imo, means straighter. if a disc has more stability, i'd have to ask if it's overstable or understable to figure out what "more stability" means. to infer that it has "stability," means it's not stable, it's either overstable or understable to some extent.

i suppose you could say a disc had zero stability, but that still doesn't exactly mean it's stable.


ahhh semantics how i love thee

Agreed. 100%. But semantically, it's frustrating because straight/neutral are what stable mean from the get-go. We could just have well been calling them Overneutral, Neutral, and Underneutral; or 1940's Germany, Sweden, France.

You guys are over thinking on this. The important part is communication. Thats all words really are. If someone doesn't understand what you are talking about, they should ask for clarification and vice-versa.

 

[dreadlock86]

IMO that's the least useful and most confusing way to define what more or less "stable" means. Going by that you could say that a Spirit is just as stable as an Optimizer because neither of them are straight flying discs (the Spirit is very overstable and the Optimizer is very understable). If we always talk about stability as a spectrum of the least stable discs being the most understable and the most stable discs being the most overstable it makes the term it much less confusing. Saying the Spirit is much more stable than the Optimizer at least tells us that they have very different flights.

If you want a word for straight discs use either "straight" or "neutral." It's much less ambiguous than "stable."

^^^^ i agree with this

IMO, more stable should mean less turn and/or more fade. the more stable a disc is, the more its flight pattern will go left (RHBH).

 

[Craton]

You guys are over thinking on this. The important part is communication. Thats all words really are. If someone doesn't understand what you are talking about, they should ask for clarification and vice-versa.

We know how to communicate it- this thread was designed for a semantic conversation so we can all get our Webster-boners out of the way.

 

[Technohic]

I see...

Ok, carry on.

 

[Marmoset]

As many others have already said, there is no confusion if you say more overstable, more understable, more evenly stable.
I firmly believe this is the best way to describe the full spectrum of discs' high speed stability. Low speed stability needs to be taken into account in a separate spectrum.

 

[UnitedPuppySlayer]

We could just have well been calling them Overneutral, Neutral, and Underneutral; or 1940's Germany, Sweden, France.

This is quote worthy :thmbup: