what'shisname
Double Eagle Member
Good god man, did you really just write a book about the ion? Where's the index?
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MVP Ion
- Thread starter discspeed
- Start date
JR
* Ace Member *
discspeed said:
The proof that discspeed walk with blinds on, when someone says something, that could be seen as negative about MVP products: I searched my post and the words Ion and Ions were in that post only 24 times. Too few to notice
JR
* Ace Member *
what'shisname said:
If i were so inclined i'd dig up a picture of Fonzie spreading his arms, leaning back tilting the head with the text Heyyyy...... Because heyyyy... it's me, what did you expect? You've been here long enough to know that on occasion i have pressed a few keys.
JR said:
I only have one clear soft to compare against my variety of opaque softs, but the clear is a touch firmer overall.
Fazor1
Par Member
Are the new ones more stable than the old... are soft more stable than medium?......
Can someone list the Ion stability from most to least.
Thanks
Can someone list the Ion stability from most to least.
Thanks
jubuttib
* Ace Member *
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2009
- Messages
- 6,513
They've steadily gotten more stable as they've been improving the manufacturing process. For all intents and purposes, any older ION is going to be a but less stable than any newer ION. All of them are very close to neutral though (apart from the understable blue/orange first runs), it's not a huge difference between the runs.Fazor said:
Usually mediums are more dead nuts straight and in comparison the softs have a bit more turn and a bit more fade (but only a bit). The softs also have a tendency to fly faster and go longer on drives for some people.
dear jr,
meth and google translate are a dangerous combo.
sincerely,
dgr.
meth and google translate are a dangerous combo.
sincerely,
dgr.
JR
* Ace Member *
I wish apoth keeps on repeatedly accusing somebody, who for professional reasons has to defend his honor, of drug abuse. I sure want to write a letter describing his character in his trial.
Moderators i don't particularly enjoy being accused of being a criminal. My sense of irony is enough to appreciate the fun stuff of a guy, who was allegedly booted off of DGCR for trying to sell drugs accusing me of drug abuse. Still people may get the wrong impression, when a lie is repeated too often.Nobody needs that. I want this campaign of lies to end. Please reprimand apothecary of his action in any way you see fit. Returning to the topic in my next post.
Moderators i don't particularly enjoy being accused of being a criminal. My sense of irony is enough to appreciate the fun stuff of a guy, who was allegedly booted off of DGCR for trying to sell drugs accusing me of drug abuse. Still people may get the wrong impression, when a lie is repeated too often.Nobody needs that. I want this campaign of lies to end. Please reprimand apothecary of his action in any way you see fit. Returning to the topic in my next post.
JR
* Ace Member *
I was less tired initially throwing Axes and clear Ion today than in the last session. I was pretty off in power generation late in the session, when i threw the Ion best. I noticed, that i was having issues with mids and putters scraping the top of my index finger to the point of breaking skin. I switched from power grip to modified power grip to no avail. I tried control grip also to no avail. I had great results with two finger grip as long as i didn't have early slips. Clearly the few slips were too many, when winter time reduces grip strength more and rains would lessen grip power massively. I had some, but way fewer early slips, when i didn't put my pinky inside the disc at all and set the index finger to the rim with the middle finger stacking on it and index finger and thumb being like in a power grip.
With this grip i didn't notice scraping and maintained good tendon mobility in the wrist snap. When i tuned down, how hard i was planning to throw and reached back little enough to maintain eye contact with the target, and didn't rip as hard as with drivers, i had repeatable distance and accuracy. Nice. Up to the middle part of the session i was able to punch decently hard for me. Late in the session i was too tired to do that fully, so i tried to compensate by focusing on letting the disc to pivot and pinching late and fairly hard. Only fairly hard, because that was the best i could muster. I loosened up the grip power with the ring and middle fingers and i had the most easy to feel disc pivots going fastfastfast. Even though i did not try to stop the wrist. Too tired for that and i also tried to concentrate on getting the disc to pivot initially every time. And feel that i had nice results there -so wrist stopping exercises are in order.
Clear Ion did not flip much on harder rips and it could well have been due to wrist rolling, because i was tired late in that session. When i tried to pivot the disc well i certainly felt a lot of pinching between the index finger and the thumb. It was so hard that i have no trouble believing, that the pinch pressure would have twisted softer Ions. 270'-280' flat throws with eyes on the target throughout the throw and not a lot of flipping at all in mild winds head- and rear winds are encouraging results. I think the grip change helped a lot with Ions too. Hyzers were nice too. The big but is the comparison to Star 175 Wedge. That one flips about 3 degrees and is faster and on average 15'+ longer. And fades less on lower lines and can be pounded a lot harder in the drive thus giving more safety margin against user error in many form flaws. The Wedge is so fast that it too has a really low power requirement for the distance. Given the same power the Wedge flies farther for me than the Ion. I don't remember exactly, how far the longest toss went in a mild rear wind with the Wedge, but it was longer than the longest one i remember. Which was 315'. What is more impressive with the Wedge is that once i dropped the height a bit i got one 300'+ absolute laser in which i did not detect any fade whatsoever. Wedge is easier to grip for my small hand and my injuries don't like tall discs forcing the fingers to spread out far. I need to see, how both discs fare in winds to determine, what i should put in the bag. Both are good putters and Ridge handles winds well and i have one that is broken in to straight. Honestly for personal anatomy and physical issues i hope that the Wedge will be better for me on the courses. Only time will tell.
I put the Axis to a real test against some oldies, but goodies of straight midrange flights. Pulling power and using a cleaner releasing grip C MD2 faded too much and took the mild winds well from every direction. Great. Aurora MS was straighter than the Axis on medium heights. Axes and the AMS flipped on low lines and Axes faded usually earlier than the AMS. The fade direction of the AMS on high lines was more sideways that with the Axes i have. Headwinds and gusts kicked the pants of the AMS, but in calm conditions and rear winds the AMS won in gliding better and flying straighter. So no overall winner for every environmental situation out of those two. FLZ Buzzz fades hard and doesn't really glide and needs a way harder throw to get the same D so a good toss with the Axis wins easily. I do need to test a Z Buzzz vs the Axes. ESP Comet glides well when it is close to flat so it remains airborne longer and goes around 15' farther than the Axes. Great for powering down. The Comet, the Axis and GL Fuse all flew better for me than ever before from accuracy and consistency and straightness of flight points of view.
Added pivot and looser throwing not trying to rip so hard with the arm speed really benefited these discs magnificently. The Fuse fades out for me on higher lines easier than the Axis or the Comet. Comet likes powering down the best, because it goes so much farther than the others for the same effort. The Fuse is faster and glides a little better than the Axis and is longer on a good toss. Getting one requires better height control than with the Axis. The Fuse wants to flip way more per foot of dropped apex height than Axes and Comets and the Fuse does not like to fly straight to the end on high lines. Which can be an asset too depending on the situation. I really love, how all of these straightened up, need less initial hyzer or not at all, depending on power, and soar far for little power, but a good deal of snap. Great for slippery teepads with slowed down steps. Like in the fall and winter. SG MD 1 was no slouch either being on par with the other discs mentioned even though it flies differently to all of those. More fade than the AMS and better wind handling too. Still being pretty straight. Needing less snap to not flip, but always fading more than the Axis.
It seems, that i will keep on moving into pulled power throwing with putters and mids with even less ripping and more snapping for better control. And not pushing the discs out as far as i could. Consistency and accuracy have increased for me already, especially on wet and muddy tees, but the best things are probably in the future. I do have ranging issues now, but that will be cured in time i'm sure.
With this grip i didn't notice scraping and maintained good tendon mobility in the wrist snap. When i tuned down, how hard i was planning to throw and reached back little enough to maintain eye contact with the target, and didn't rip as hard as with drivers, i had repeatable distance and accuracy. Nice. Up to the middle part of the session i was able to punch decently hard for me. Late in the session i was too tired to do that fully, so i tried to compensate by focusing on letting the disc to pivot and pinching late and fairly hard. Only fairly hard, because that was the best i could muster. I loosened up the grip power with the ring and middle fingers and i had the most easy to feel disc pivots going fastfastfast. Even though i did not try to stop the wrist. Too tired for that and i also tried to concentrate on getting the disc to pivot initially every time. And feel that i had nice results there -so wrist stopping exercises are in order.
Clear Ion did not flip much on harder rips and it could well have been due to wrist rolling, because i was tired late in that session. When i tried to pivot the disc well i certainly felt a lot of pinching between the index finger and the thumb. It was so hard that i have no trouble believing, that the pinch pressure would have twisted softer Ions. 270'-280' flat throws with eyes on the target throughout the throw and not a lot of flipping at all in mild winds head- and rear winds are encouraging results. I think the grip change helped a lot with Ions too. Hyzers were nice too. The big but is the comparison to Star 175 Wedge. That one flips about 3 degrees and is faster and on average 15'+ longer. And fades less on lower lines and can be pounded a lot harder in the drive thus giving more safety margin against user error in many form flaws. The Wedge is so fast that it too has a really low power requirement for the distance. Given the same power the Wedge flies farther for me than the Ion. I don't remember exactly, how far the longest toss went in a mild rear wind with the Wedge, but it was longer than the longest one i remember. Which was 315'. What is more impressive with the Wedge is that once i dropped the height a bit i got one 300'+ absolute laser in which i did not detect any fade whatsoever. Wedge is easier to grip for my small hand and my injuries don't like tall discs forcing the fingers to spread out far. I need to see, how both discs fare in winds to determine, what i should put in the bag. Both are good putters and Ridge handles winds well and i have one that is broken in to straight. Honestly for personal anatomy and physical issues i hope that the Wedge will be better for me on the courses. Only time will tell.
I put the Axis to a real test against some oldies, but goodies of straight midrange flights. Pulling power and using a cleaner releasing grip C MD2 faded too much and took the mild winds well from every direction. Great. Aurora MS was straighter than the Axis on medium heights. Axes and the AMS flipped on low lines and Axes faded usually earlier than the AMS. The fade direction of the AMS on high lines was more sideways that with the Axes i have. Headwinds and gusts kicked the pants of the AMS, but in calm conditions and rear winds the AMS won in gliding better and flying straighter. So no overall winner for every environmental situation out of those two. FLZ Buzzz fades hard and doesn't really glide and needs a way harder throw to get the same D so a good toss with the Axis wins easily. I do need to test a Z Buzzz vs the Axes. ESP Comet glides well when it is close to flat so it remains airborne longer and goes around 15' farther than the Axes. Great for powering down. The Comet, the Axis and GL Fuse all flew better for me than ever before from accuracy and consistency and straightness of flight points of view.
Added pivot and looser throwing not trying to rip so hard with the arm speed really benefited these discs magnificently. The Fuse fades out for me on higher lines easier than the Axis or the Comet. Comet likes powering down the best, because it goes so much farther than the others for the same effort. The Fuse is faster and glides a little better than the Axis and is longer on a good toss. Getting one requires better height control than with the Axis. The Fuse wants to flip way more per foot of dropped apex height than Axes and Comets and the Fuse does not like to fly straight to the end on high lines. Which can be an asset too depending on the situation. I really love, how all of these straightened up, need less initial hyzer or not at all, depending on power, and soar far for little power, but a good deal of snap. Great for slippery teepads with slowed down steps. Like in the fall and winter. SG MD 1 was no slouch either being on par with the other discs mentioned even though it flies differently to all of those. More fade than the AMS and better wind handling too. Still being pretty straight. Needing less snap to not flip, but always fading more than the Axis.
It seems, that i will keep on moving into pulled power throwing with putters and mids with even less ripping and more snapping for better control. And not pushing the discs out as far as i could. Consistency and accuracy have increased for me already, especially on wet and muddy tees, but the best things are probably in the future. I do have ranging issues now, but that will be cured in time i'm sure.
Crosseyed0811
Eagle Member
JR, You're mentioning this grip all over now, yet I don't quite understand it. Can we get pics? Feel free to post in the technique forum so we don't thread jack here...
lol...selling drugs got me the boot from dgcr. i hadnt heard that one yet. thanks for the chuckle.
JR
* Ace Member *
Crosseyed0811 said:
http://www.innovadiscs.com/home/daves-tips/daves-grip-tips.html
Look at the picture of the Stack Fork Grip, but with the pinky not inside the disc and curled like you were making a fist. Note the divide between the index finger and the middle finger in the picture. It can get wider removing the pinky from inside the disc. But if you curl the index finger back closer to the middle finger and keep the thumb forward, you can gain a few extra degrees of nose down angle. Especially if you push down with the front part of the thumb. Like the Jenkinses at times.
Crosseyed0811
Eagle Member
JR said:
Ahh, seems like a grip I've been using recently. Started with Climo's grip and getting to it the way he shows in one of the youtube videos. I liked the grip and how the disc came out, but it pulled something in my hand funny unless I pulled the pinky out of the rim.
JR
* Ace Member *
Cool! I'd like to know your experiences in disc pivot speed and cleanliness of release with different discs. Mids, putters and tall vs thin. For me scraping was always worse to the point of the disc sticking to the fingers to grip locks with tall discs. Now things seem a lot more bright, but there were a few early slips, so i'm worried about the grip strength in the winter and in the rain.
Fazor said:
In my experience the old, second run Ions with the partially obscured bead, no hot stamp, textured bottom and no engraving on the overmold fly more neutral like a Comet. If I drive these at max power and want to keep them straight I have to throw with hyzer.
The newer runs, including the clear current run and the hot stamped, engraved overmold, texture-less opaque run that preceeded it are more like Wizards or slightly used Rocs stability-wise. With these Ions I can throw them at full power with a flat release and even at 380' of D they don't turn.
I haven't noticed a stability difference between my mediums and softs.
JR
* Ace Member *
Rear wind medium speed run up and almost full reach back, but with slow arm motion until a late acceleration elbow lead gave me several 300' line drives without flips today. And one bad finger sticking and flip to short flight.
dgdave
* Ace Member *
I threw one and it went 315.
JR
* Ace Member *
The longest toss out of a clear Ion for me was 320', but i don't recall the details. It might have moved a few feet in the turn and the fade on a fairly high line, but i can't say for sure. I haven't had any luck driving past 200' with other types of Ions. But i've changed my grip for the better so maybe now the others could work. Other Ions fade less than clear ones.
