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Nate Doss

I don't know Nate Doss or Ken Climo, though I have met Ken a couple times. My gut tells me that these guys, like Paul, have a "killer instinct" in that when they compete, they only want to win. If they are no longer in physical shape to win regularly, they would rather not play competitively at all. Like Ricky Bobby says, "If you ain't first you're last!"

I've never developed that mindset myself with DG - mainly because I rarely win :)! But I can understand how someone in that position might feel that way.
 
I don't know Nate Doss or Ken Climo, though I have met Ken a couple times. My gut tells me that these guys, like Paul, have a "killer instinct" in that when they compete, they only want to win. If they are no longer in physical shape to win regularly, they would rather not play competitively at all. Like Ricky Bobby says, "If you ain't first you're last!"

I've never developed that mindset myself with DG - mainly because I rarely win :)! But I can understand how someone in that position might feel that way.

I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case. Once you've been the very best, it might not interest these guys to just be "good".

I wouldn't know much about that personally.

):
 
I don't know Nate Doss or Ken Climo, though I have met Ken a couple times. My gut tells me that these guys, like Paul, have a "killer instinct" in that when they compete, they only want to win. If they are no longer in physical shape to win regularly, they would rather not play competitively at all. Like Ricky Bobby says, "If you ain't first you're last!"

I've never developed that mindset myself with DG - mainly because I rarely win :)! But I can understand how someone in that position might feel that way.

In addition to this perspective about playing, I do have to wonder, as others have pondered, if there is some bad taste in his mouth toward DG in general for whatever reason. He must know his commentary has been well received, and it is likely out there if he desires. But since it appears that the PDGA doesn't even want to gift multiple time world champions with annual dues or other benefits, there must be something. From reading some of his online banter with McBeth, I do detect some animosity, not sure if it is toward Paul directly, or the DG community in whole.

Players winning the year end DGPT championship get more cash for 3 days' work than I bet KC did during any entire year of his career--and that doesn't include disc sponsorships. That could be another issue. So Innova buys out KC's future royalties for a mere $100K, for all future sales, for a 12X champ who has probably helped sell millions of discs, and 2nd tier players today are getting that much in sponsorship money per year.

I mean yeah different eras and all that but I can see the money side of it. I think the best solution, IF it is $ related, might be to go to another disc company (if his deal with Innova even allows) to design some new molds with his name, and get back involved. I think he could make a good career into retirement doing something like that, combined with commentary, clinics, whatever. Many people would pay good money to hear what he would say. If they pay to listen to Stokely, they will pay to listen to the one who always beat Stokely. (No offense Scott!)

If he is stuck because of whatever deal he signed with Innova, maybe the bigwigs there need to lighten up those reins and let the Champ get back involved if he desires. The sport would love to have him.

And all this is conjecture, only met KC twice myself, way back in the 90s, and I know nothing about his current situation. Paul has been a little critical of him as well concerning his facebook posts, so maybe he could extend an olive branch and not continue to talk about him in the 3rd person. Go sit down with him. Make it happen. You can build a course in 3rd world countries, you can go sit and chat with Champ. :)

Sorry--just noticed this is the Nate Doss thread, can a moderator please move to someplace more appropriate?
 
I have nothing to add to the conversation that hasn't been said, except just to say that I think Nate can compete. I think anybody who disagrees is selling him short, but I can agree to disagree. I'm also the guy who believes Climo and Schultz could compete just fine with McBeth and Ricky if they were 30 instead of 55, so take it for what its worth, an opinion.

If Nate had the fire (that's the key!) to get back in shape and grind it out, I think he could be a regular contender. Nate Doss is 13 days younger than Nate Sexton, who still seems to be doing pretty well for himself as the old man on tour. I think some people forget just how young he is because he came on the scene and won a world title at 20 years old.

I really think he loves Val, loves beer, loves Oregon, and has nothing left to prove. He still loves disc golf, too, he just doesn't have the desire to sweat it out daily for outside chances at titles that don't really mean so much any more.
 
Have no idea how he's doing lately, but I do know he had a reoccurring throwing shoulder injury, especially during his last season playing that was nagging him for quite some time.

I've got to imagine that brewing beer, slinging drinks at a bar and doing commentary are probably a little bit easier on that shoulder of his.
 
As a former brewer i can say that it is a physically demanding job and requires alot of shoulder and back mobility. That said he probably has some staff to do the tough work.
 
I was watching the 2021 DGPT championship and looked up Doss on PDGA

His PDGA membership has been expired since 2018, so no stats available.

So many issues.

A 3x world champ and you can't see his stats? (Same for Climo obviously).

OTOH, kind of surprising Doss isn't current and playing. Does he play any events?

With the significantly larger $ in events, I'm kind of surprised he hasn't thought about competing. I don't know how he would perform, but if I were him, I'd be thinking that I could be high up in the cash finish.

Conclusions/questions:
PDGA not sharing historical stats sucks.
Why isn't Doss current on his membership?
Could Doss be competitive today ?
Does Doss play at all? Competitively?

He doesn't seem tempted by the purses, must be getting paid pretty well—feeds back into the Climo conversation.

KC might not want to be a regular commentator, but if the $ are good for Doss to pass on playing, what about getting Climo involved? Surely the $ are there to get him interested in making an appearance?

I am able to see Climo's stats - his membership expired in 12/21.

I agree though it is lame that PDGA does not show stats for expired members. I am not sure what parameters they use that allow Climo's stats to be visible.

I haven't shot an ATA trap shoot in 10 years and have not been a member in that same time period. However I can still go on to their site and see all my tournament results. It would only legitimize the PDGA as an organization to publish all their tourney results to the general public, IMO.

As far as Doss competing or not competing, or Climo doing commentary, meh. It is their business and I am not really interested. I personally respect Climo for his playing skills, but he lost my respect as a competitor for what he and Patrick Brown did to Stokely a few years back. Calling phantom foot faults to gain a competitive edge. Bush league, so I would not be interested in hearing what he has to say as a commentator.
 
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I have nothing to add to the conversation that hasn't been said, except just to say that I think Nate can compete. I think anybody who disagrees is selling him short, but I can agree to disagree. I'm also the guy who believes Climo and Schultz could compete just fine with McBeth and Ricky if they were 30 instead of 55, so take it for what its worth, an opinion.

If Nate had the fire (that's the key!) to get back in shape and grind it out, I think he could be a regular contender. Nate Doss is 13 days younger than Nate Sexton, who still seems to be doing pretty well for himself as the old man on tour. I think some people forget just how young he is because he came on the scene and won a world title at 20 years old.

I really think he loves Val, loves beer, loves Oregon, and has nothing left to prove. He still loves disc golf, too, he just doesn't have the desire to sweat it out daily for outside chances at titles that don't really mean so much any more.

The same thing can be said for guys like Troy Aikman, Tony Romo, Boomer Esiason. Guys just seem to know when it is time too hang em up and do something else.

I was somewhat annoyed at the timing of Doss's retirement because I has just bought two of his Nate Doss tour fund raiser Buzzzes two months prior and felt somewhat burned. Only reason I bought them was to support his touring, and felt he should have been more transparent so that I could have made a better informed decision.

But its all good. I have since traded them away for better discs so I made out OK in the deal.
 
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I am able to see Climo's stats - his membership expired in 12/21.

Interesting. I think the first time I looked him up circa 2020 when I started playing and his membership was expired and you could not see his stats. I could be wrong since it's been a while. Regardless, you are right that they are visible now even though his membership is once again expired.

But with Doss you get this:


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Sometime in the last two years, I think they made it so that you can view Hall of Famers' stats on PDGA. At least, all of the HoF players I click on have visible stats. That's why you can see Climo's and Val's, but not Nate's. Of course, Nate's day for HoF is coming soon I'm sure. :thmbup:

ChrisWoj also pointed out a website a while back where you can view expired info on the bigger names, Statmando.com. Here's Nate's:

https://statmando.com/player/nate-doss/profile

He said he believes there is some sort of partnership with the PDGA that allows them to obtain the info. Doesn't change that it's silly to hide the info on PDGA.com, but at least you can find it if you want to see it.
 
I think if you're a TD of a sanctioned event you can see the expired stats. Can anyone here clarify? If so it would be easy to allow any current member to look. Maybe reach out to the member elected Board?
 
This thread reminded me of this Nate Doss in the bag video. This is one of my favorite bag setups, and IMO it is in the same category as the often cited Philo in the bag: simple, clean, a few trusty molds in different stages of wear.

 
Discraft should do a re release of those domey squishy esp plastic nate doss surges. New players don't know what they are missing.
 
Just made a visit to Nate's brewery (Bevel Craft) in Bend, OR a couple of weeks ago. Really great brewpub with excellent food trucks and a cool putting course out back. Had the Maple Hill MVP tournament round one going live on all the TV's. Good beer, too. Didn't see Nate, though.
 
Various helpful things I noticed in Doss in Beaver State Fling 2024. He was playing high 1030s golf back in 2018 before he left competition, and put up a respectable 1007 in his first PDGA tournament back at close to 40 years old. I thought his shot control was still pretty impressive and hanging in with the top shooters, and he was leaving some on the table in a few scenarios, but all the markings of younger 3X champion Doss were still in there.

Now 39, he's relatively tall but somewhat short-levered compared to the current top crop, moves deceptively athletic and balanced using a fairly high arm slot over his tummy, and moves with a relatively narrow stance/vertical shift. A compact yet momentous elbow pump - compare to modern Isaac Robinson. Not a top-tier distance guy but most people wouldn't complain having his distance, consistency, and accolades. Some similarities to later Jenkins, but Doss always looks a little more "clean" to me, motion-wise.

Pre-shot routine
On hole 1. Setting up the shot through the release point, eyes on apex, walking it out in reverse, handling and setting up the disc.
icrit7P.gif


I have been doing that for a while, but recently my own pattern in rounds is something like needing 5-6 holes to get in a rhythm and warmed up to find my easy distance. Then I often have a good streak, then I am trying to maintain it without fatiguing or getting too jittery if I'm doing well heading into the last few holes. So I have been trying to pick up little habits that help increase my chances of success on hole 1, especially if my first shot requires some distance.

Thus, I found the second half of his Hole 1 pre-shot admirable. It is very helpful because it involves very little thinking and a lot of good golf juice (for me). Notice that a lot of little "tricks" are all evident:
1. March around a little bit, feel the ground and your weight and balance. Start out wide, bring it narrow as you approach the starting position. Stretch the body out a little bit.
2. Find and settle into your starting position.
3. Rock up athletically onto the balls of the feet and get your momentum carrying forward.
4. Replicate what you set up in the pre-shot walk-it-out, and fire away.
njJl1r2.gif


Shots
Closest to a "stock" hyzer I could skim:
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I personally move somewhat more like GG and still prefer to use hyzer whenever I can, but forcing myself to use flatter shots and anhyzers has been helping me get more overall control over my balance and of course some useful new shot versatility. I am enjoying studying his turnovers/natural anhyzers/rollers right now while I work on those shots. Watch for how he modifies the shot with his posture and little details in his arm. Some of these shots still looked better to me than many of the up-and-coming young guns.

eROatoU.gif


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Tricky situations
This was maybe my favorite sequence to watch. Notice how deliberate but still confident his pre-shot becomes on a difficult shot - this gif is 10 seconds of a much longer ~40s setup where he first "walked it out" in reverse, then spent more time making sure he could find the exact apex for the harsh trajectory and angle. Take your time and then commit. This shot wasn't perfect but you can tell he usually shakes off little mistakes quickly and moves on.
1sDe6HL.gif


When I watch the full sequence below (starting around 53:01), it is almost like I can feel him feeling out the shot in various ways - this is a well-established thing in motor systems control where if you sample around the intended behavior, you often get better and more reliable outputs both in the moment and in the long run.

At 53:01:



Say what you will about his commentary, dude can still put some moves on a disc!
 
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Some good insight. It's nice to see someone more analytical than I am break something like this down. I have been learning to be more aware of what I am doing again. Pre-shot routine was something I somewhat intentionally developed back in the 1x Doss days and was successful enough that I didn't think about it for a decade. It was just my natural game. Now near another decade removed injury, time away, age, injury and lack of intention in the play and little practice I have had I didn't realize how removed from that routine I was left with. Been working on it, but like many other sports I have played I used to rely on feel and practice reps not intentional change. Thanks for sharing your observations and thoughts.


While this post is bumped, it's worth mentioning that the PDGA has made a change since the OP. Currently stats/tourney history for all players, current or not, are available to pdga members. As someone who loves diving into players/snooping I enjoy the change.
 

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