-
Discover new ways to elevate your game with the updated DGCourseReview app!
It's entirely free and enhanced with features shaped by user feedback to ensure your best experience on the course. (App Store or Google Play)
Need help from Tournament players
- Thread starter AndyJB
- Start date
I don't know Andrew. Really all of it is about what you are looking to get out of the experience. I am a pretty love and peace guy. I would sign up for pro, in the interest of the promotion of the sport and to get to play. Don't matter about winning or losing, playing and making the experience as much fun for myself and all around me, matters. You could certainly petition the PDGA about ratings with explaination, I don't know how the reaction would go, but seems like the circumstances are certainly extenuating. Sounds like last chance to leave the indelible "Andy" attitude for the future of Korean disc golf, take that chance and have a riot, regardless of circumstances. Having fun is up to you, not any jerkwater around you. Good luck brother.
Grungedude42
Double Eagle Member
My reply would be simple.
http://www.poopsenders.com
http://www.poopsenders.com
Harrishabitat
PDGA Numbers 60630 AND 34207
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2009
- Messages
- 678
If you have a PDGA rating there is no such thing as Sandbagging...period, end of subject. People that try to badger people into playing above their ratings are simply bullies.
You are correct that in PDGA events, PDGA ratings remove the issue of sandbagging. But I think we have to keep in mind that the "bullies" in this case aren't PDGA members, probably don't care to be PDGA members, and view this PDGA event as imposing on "their way" of doing things. Ratings mean nothing to them, and clearly from the email Andy posted, they don't understand how the ratings system works in the first place.
Reading some of what the guy wrote sounds an awful lot like what many American players were moaning about 10-15 years ago when ratings were first introduced and hadn't quite established their relevance. They're set in their ways over there in a lot of respects, for better or worse, and aren't interested in foreigners (whether it's foreign players at the event or foreign governing bodies like the PDGA) messing it up. Makes me question why they're bothering with sanctioning at all.
Andy, it sounds like you handled it fairly well. You weren't wrong to sign up and insist on playing the division of your choice. And you weren't wrong to walk away like you did. Hopefully the PDGA folks can look into this and perhaps try to address the issue for future Korean events. Sounds a bit like the TD had his heart in the right place but wasn't prepared to deal with what sounds like PDGA culture shock amongst the locals.
TeeSquared
Par Member
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2012
- Messages
- 132
I'm not sure i believe this, especially since apparently there are 1000 rated am's who could conceivably turn pro and compete and win at many events.
notroman
* Ace Member *
The problem here is that people are seeing ams and pros as part of the same pool or same group of people. You need to differentiate between the two.
The are Am divisions that are separated into different divisions, with MA1 being the highest. There are also Pro divisions (separated by age/gender). If you don't want to move up and play on a professional level, nobody is going to force you. You can stay Amateur and play in the highest available Amateur division. If you're 1000 rated you are most likely going to be better than most other ams, but so what? You're still an amateur and you're playing in the highest amateur division you can.
If a person is insanely good at baseball, enough to compete on a national level, but they decide not to turn pro and continue playing at the highest available level in their local games, nobody is going to call them a bagger. They will just say that he's a great player and he should be playing pro. Now whether the person playing amateur events when he can be playing on a professional level is making the right choice or not, that's a different argument. Whether the person is bagging is not an argument. Why would it be any different for disc golf? Probably because most our "professionals" are really still amateur players and our sport is just not big enough to support a true professional division. That doesn't mean we should treat the professional division we have as another amateur division and force people that want to remain amateur to make the jump to pro just because they're better than everyone else in their amateur division. That's a decision they have to make themselves.
notroman
* Ace Member *
To address the initial post, I noticed that in a lot of foreign countries (look at most European tournaments, for instance) the field is usually just split into two or three divisions. They're basically lower/upper or beginner/intermediate/advanced.
The lowest offered division is usually there for people who are just getting into the sport or are trying it out for the first time. This gives them an opportunity to play in a tournament setting and have fun competing against each other. Everyone else that already has a grasp on the game plays up in the higher division. If there is a middle division available to separate the ones that are truly good (pros) from the ones that are casual players but are by no means beginners (ams), then that's where people sign up. There just isn't enough organization/interest/whatever present to actually separate people into all the divisions that we have here and sometimes take for granted.
Since PDGA doesn't have a way to separate people into lower/upper pools they use the available divisions. Usually you see MA1/MPO split or MA2/MA1/MPO. All true beginners go in the lower division, the rest move up. They don't really separate people by ratings. Most people don't even have a PDGA number or understand/care what it all entails. They just want to play an organized competitive event. In this case, it doesn't matter if your rating is 860 - if they feel 860 is good enough to bump you from true beginners then they can ask you to move up. They know they can't force you to move up because of existing PDGA guidelines, but they do what they can to try and create an event that's fun and fair for all. Even if that means to contact you in private and ask you to move up to a different division.
This happens in the US as well. I remember playing a tournament in Iowa when I was 890-some rated and the only divisions they offered were MA2/MA1/MPO. I noticed all the people signed up for MA2 were 750-870 or so rated, so I even though I would technically be "playing up" in MA2, in this particular field I would be playing down. Most people with my ratings were playing in MA1 (along with some that were 935+, but it is what it is). I signed up for MA1 and had a good time.
The lowest offered division is usually there for people who are just getting into the sport or are trying it out for the first time. This gives them an opportunity to play in a tournament setting and have fun competing against each other. Everyone else that already has a grasp on the game plays up in the higher division. If there is a middle division available to separate the ones that are truly good (pros) from the ones that are casual players but are by no means beginners (ams), then that's where people sign up. There just isn't enough organization/interest/whatever present to actually separate people into all the divisions that we have here and sometimes take for granted.
Since PDGA doesn't have a way to separate people into lower/upper pools they use the available divisions. Usually you see MA1/MPO split or MA2/MA1/MPO. All true beginners go in the lower division, the rest move up. They don't really separate people by ratings. Most people don't even have a PDGA number or understand/care what it all entails. They just want to play an organized competitive event. In this case, it doesn't matter if your rating is 860 - if they feel 860 is good enough to bump you from true beginners then they can ask you to move up. They know they can't force you to move up because of existing PDGA guidelines, but they do what they can to try and create an event that's fun and fair for all. Even if that means to contact you in private and ask you to move up to a different division.
This happens in the US as well. I remember playing a tournament in Iowa when I was 890-some rated and the only divisions they offered were MA2/MA1/MPO. I noticed all the people signed up for MA2 were 750-870 or so rated, so I even though I would technically be "playing up" in MA2, in this particular field I would be playing down. Most people with my ratings were playing in MA1 (along with some that were 935+, but it is what it is). I signed up for MA1 and had a good time.
There are three such people in the entire world. There are only 29 rated 980 or higher.
http://www.pdga.com/players/stats?Y...ntry=All&StateProv=All&order=Rating&sort=desc
And again, Pro is a separate classification. Not a division above advanced.
Harrishabitat
PDGA Numbers 60630 AND 34207
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2009
- Messages
- 678
That's a problem with the PDGA letting them do that. My personal opinion is it's wisdom (sarcasm implied) the PDGA trys to play nice and has these silly rules that let people do things like that and still be under the rules.
My opinion when it comes to sandbagging... if you want to play in a PDGA event and don't have a PDGA number, then you must play open... if you have a rating over 965 you need to play open. I completely agree that 1000 rated players have zero reason to be playing ams.
Plus if we started to going to true amateur events (trophy only) you would see a near end to sandbagging...IMO
Many of these "Ams" will play open and decline cash.
"Pro" and "Am" really should be tournament classifications, not competitive divisions.
Technically they are, but since we tend to run anywhere from 1-12 tournaments simultaneously under one umbrella at one venue, they have been incorporated into the divisional names to avoid confusion...and created a different kind of confusion instead. :\
Yeah, I was going to edit and say that it's maybe better to just think of them this way instead.
I really would just prefer to put every male from the ages of 18-40 into one division called "Open."
Save the term "Pro" for the National Tour.
Harrishabitat
PDGA Numbers 60630 AND 34207
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2009
- Messages
- 678
My point is, if we quit giving them financial incentive (plastic they don't throw and sell for money) then they would start playing open.
I'm just sick and tired of the sandbagging label and bullying for people to move up. I have a sub 900 rating and until recently had a multiyear slump of a lot of second and third place finishes because I couldn't closeout tournaments. I can barely reach past 300' except on occasions. I just won my first legit MA2 event where I almost choked away a 7 stroke final round lead. Of our final card group, I was the shortest thrower and barely held on...but yet I was called a sandbagger and was basically told this was my last MA2 event. And trust me I am far from the only person this happens to.
Harrishabitat
PDGA Numbers 60630 AND 34207
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2009
- Messages
- 678
Worst suggestion ever IMO...you would stunt the growth of the sport and cause a lot of players like myself and people that are just getting started from playing because they would feel like they couldn't compete. I think divisions like they are now are great, they just need more stringent rules for playing in them.
John Rock
Double Eagle Member
I just don't get it. If you know you've beaten all of the same players over and over, why not search out better competition?
Harrishabitat
PDGA Numbers 60630 AND 34207
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2009
- Messages
- 678
If that is the case your rating will rise and force you to play better competition
TeeSquared
Par Member
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2012
- Messages
- 132
Exactly! And, Who doesn't want to win money? That's just Idiocracy! I like money! but... I'd prefer to not stay stagnant in my game so playing with those that are better than i am inspires me to play better.
I agree that calling someone a sandbagger is rude and you never know the reason why someone picks a division and it is up to them (mostly). But it can be true that someone just plays and stays in a division because they know they can win. What do you call that person?
TeeSquared
Par Member
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2012
- Messages
- 132
Again, only three players in the entire world have that issue.but not if your an AM rated at 1000?
