discgolfer#1
Newbie
what kind of flight pattern does the ninja have, I've heard that it flies really far but thats about it. I know it's not legal but would be fun to toss around. If anyone has any info on it let me know
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marmoset said:Marmo-blog:
My initial impressions:
I opened my Gateway box and I had 5 E Ninjas (177-182g) and 2 S Ninjas (168-169g). After fondling them I got the impression that they are relatively unrefined in several ways which I will not expand on at this time. The wing is perfectly flat and has a small bead that juts downward. The profile is very similar to a very domey Wraith with a flat Katana sized wing. This thing is all dome and the PLH is barely off the countertop at 0.091". The wing is nearly parallel to the countertop and the disc almost rests on its wing instead of on its bead. Ignoring the enormous wing width- which is nearly impossible to do- the grip is still kinda funny.
I picked a White E Ninja that was marked 177g and went outside to throw it. I was afraid that Gateway modified their E Plastic to get lower weights. On the first throw the disc went much further than I expected and skipped off some asphalt. No damage to the disc even though the narrow nose definitely hit first. I guess the plastic durability was not compromised in an effort to hit lower weights. It went probably about 400' but that was over an elevation drop of 30'. I was only trying to throw it 300' or so. Throwing it back up the same hill I came in waaaay too low and only got 150'. Back down at the bottom of the hill I tried again and got about 350' over 30' of elevation rise. Not bad but not fabulous. It feels strange to huck such a wide wing.
Second round of field practice:
177 First Run E Ninja
168 Prototype S Ninja
171 First Run Pro Katana- I originally bought it because it has a high PLH
The Ninjas have more turn and harsher fade than my Katana. It is kind of strange... they turn turn turn then abruptly transition into a lawn dart fade. If you get some height on them they will eventually flatten out and then dump harshly into the ground. If you get it right they will definitely bomb.
My S Ninja was consistently 15' longer than my E Ninja. Might be the weight difference, might be the plastic difference; I dunno. Like I said before, my S ninjas don't have surface technology. I averaged about 400' with these guys but I honestly expected more than that.
My Katana is like a refined Ninja IMO. It doesn't change directions nearly as quickly and it seems to have more of a tendency to fade forwards instead of sideways. At least compared to the Ninja. In my opinion this is a more refined flightpath. The Katana was edging out the Ninjas by a few feet on most every throw.
All in all I think I prefer the high PLH Katana more than the Ninjas. They feel better in my hand, they usually do what I intend for them to do, and they get fabulous distance. My story might change as I get more familiar with the Ninja. I got some throws around 450' so the Ninja's potential is definitely there, I just have to unlock it.
Some initial opinions:
-My bag is all 150 class, most of it is base plastic, and I rarely ever throw anything faster than a Valk/PD/1.9cm wing. At 177.4g (according to my scale... what do ya know, Gateway's measurement was spot on), molded in premium plastic, and having a 2.75cm wing (according to my calipers) this Ninja is everything I don't usually like. I was surprised I got it to work so well.
-It is not as twitchy as I expected. Other peoples' reviews had me scared.
-Nose angles will definitely affect distance but it wasn't overly difficult to keep the nose down. When it fades, it fades HARD.
-There is a tiny window of airspeed where it will fly straight for a long time. If you fail to meet or if you exceed this window then you will get a hard turn in one direction or the other.
-It is long but you need to get used to its eccentricities like the huge wing, big dome, etc.
-It seems to fly lower than I expect; I had to consciously aim higher.
I am with discspeed on this one. I like the regulations. Gateway needed to do a better job on this one. Not to bag on Gateway as they make a couple of my favorite disc but they dropped the ball on thi one. I think they should make a less stable version of the illusion with all that speed if the take a little off the stablity so weal arms like myself could control it they would have a winner.discspeed said:I have just a couple comments regarding the above posts. The Epic was grandfathered in because the rules were made long after it had been released and it had been around long enough to prove that it was not going to radically change disc golf. It's specifications are illegal and no other disc like it will be approved. Also, I really disagree that the PDGA should change it's rules because a manufacturer HAS CHOSEN to break them.
Those earlier baby blue ones were money.marmoset said:They have flippy runs of Illusions.
discgolfer#1 said:I don't think the Ninja was intended to be illegal by the PDGA specs. When I had originaly heard of the disc it was advertised as max everything. That being said I work in rotational molding and there is one thing that is a hard fact when it comes to plastics and that is that it shrinks when cooling. I think that the disc came out of the mold large and they exspected it to shrink a bit when it cooled. However sometimes due to the shape of the product it may not have shrank as much as they would have liked, so they put it on the market anyway to make up for the money put into the casting for the disc. Gateway is planning on putting out a legal version of the disc some time in the future. In my previous post I stated that the PDGA should revise some of their specs because if they stand where they are we will not advance any further into new designs. Lets face it if we put a stop to innovation then we will be at a stand still. I'm not saying lets just throw whatever we want on the field but to stick to certain specs and never revise them would limit the sport.
When discs fly further and further without having to extend the wing width to 2.2, 2.3 or 2.5cm, disc technology will be advancing.Antoine de Saint-Exupéry said:It seems that perfection is reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
E.F. Schumacher said:Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage - to move in the opposite direction.