Par Talk

[PMantle]

And that's for golf, which is harder. Annika used to talk about it a lot.

 

[Steve West]

And that's for golf, which is harder. Annika used to talk about it a lot.

And being harder is exactly why it's possible for golf, not disc golf. If you expect to two-putt, you can hope to one-putt.

 

[PMantle]

And being harder is exactly why it's possible for golf, not disc golf. If you expect to two-putt, you can hope to one-putt.

Huh?

 

[Steve West]

Here's an interesting development. It would seem the players at DGPT - Discraft Ledgestone Insurance Open 2018 Eureka are figuring out holes 1 and 13A. Both are teetering on becoming a lower par.

 

[PMantle]

Here's an interesting development. It would seem the players at DGPT - Discraft Ledgestone Insurance Open 2018 Eureka are figuring out holes 1 and 13A. Both are teetering on becoming a lower par.

]

The TD has a time machine?

 

[Steve West]

DGPT - MVP Open at Maple Hill 2018

 

[lyleoross]

Here's an interesting development. It would seem the players at DGPT - Discraft Ledgestone Insurance Open 2018 Eureka are figuring out holes 1 and 13A. Both are teetering on becoming a lower par.

Can't be, because if so, you could have only really figured it out using math, and we all know, math has no value in determining what is going on.

 

[Steve West]

Can't be, because if so, you could have only really figured it out using math, and we all know, math has no value in determining what is going on.

Oh, I think anyone watching the players would have had the same suspicion.

 

[Casey 1988]

One way to make disc golf Harder is to make some kind of tone pole hole the standard for disc golf You make a height and diameter minimum and maximum requirement for the poles so nobody has an advantage with the course. The tone pole holes can have chains on them to the putting part or the pole like thing attached ti on both ends tight to have the chain sound people like and make it clear when a player hits the pole if using chains. A company made something like this to sell up to the 1990's but they never took off as the baskets were the winner from the begging

 

[Steve West]

One way to make disc golf Harder is to make some kind of tone pole hole the standard for disc golf You make a height and diameter minimum and maximum requirement for the poles so nobody has an advantage with the course. The tone pole holes can have chains on them to the putting part or the pole like thing attached ti on both ends tight to have the chain sound people like and make it clear when a player hits the pole if using chains. A company made something like this to sell up to the 1990's but they never took off as the baskets were the winner from the begging

If the object area of the pole is 13.5 inches tall and 4.5 inches in diameter, they will "catch" virtually the same number of putts as a regular basket. The only difference will be that you'd need a witness - as it happens - for the tone pole.

I doubt that a target smaller than that would be accepted.

Besides, there's nothing wrong with those holes being par 3s. They'd still do their job in separating players by skill.

 

[Casey 1988]

If the object area of the pole is 13.5 inches tall and 4.5 inches in diameter, they will "catch" virtually the same number of putts as a regular basket. The only difference will be that you'd need a witness - as it happens - for the tone pole.

I doubt that a target smaller than that would be accepted.

Besides, there's nothing wrong with those holes being par 3s. They'd still do their job in separating players by skill.

Yes but when a course needs to eliminate a single hole because it is a par 2 even for newer players (easy tee) who have only played under a year then something is wrong. Yes I have seen one that even the Wham-O Frisbee's and Ultimate discs would make a short hole, hole 16 Red 154 ft (3) White 183 ft (3) Blue 222 ft (3) at Shipwreck Bluff in Erie State Park. I could not find the red hole I think it was covered over in mud and I almost got an ace off the blue this hole is that easy, just a throw and park job as long as you stay out of the nasty rough.

 

[Steve West]

Yes but when a course needs to eliminate a single hole because it is a par 2 even for newer players (easy tee) who have only played under a year then something is wrong. Yes I have seen one that even the Wham-O Frisbee's and Ultimate discs would make a short hole, hole 16 Red 154 ft (3) White 183 ft (3) Blue 222 ft (3) at Shipwreck Bluff in Erie State Park. I could not find the red hole I think it was covered over in mud and I almost got an ace off the blue this hole is that easy, just a throw and park job as long as you stay out of the nasty rough.

Let's leave the question of whether disc golf needs to be harder in general for another thread.

I'd invite you to defend your premise that a hole must be eliminated if it is a par 2. And invite others to defend the premise that par 2s have a place in disc golf.

 

[DavidSauls]

Let's leave the question of whether disc golf needs to be harder in general for another thread.

I'd invite you to defend your premise that a hole must be eliminated if it is a par 2. And invite others to defend the premise that par 2s have a place in disc golf.

Among other things---

* They're fun, and in some cases can be cool (such as a really cool downhill tee shot).
* They accomplish the same goal as higher-par holes, of separating the competition by execution of shots (or failure to do so). Not so much at the top, but the middle and bottom of the field are competing, too.
* Many holes yield more birdies than bogeys. Par-2s and other "tough par" holes balance that out, by yielding more bogeys than birdies.
* They don't take up as much acreage, where space is limited.
* They're fun.

 

[broomerang]

Among other things---

* They're fun, and in some cases can be cool (such as a really cool downhill tee shot).
* They accomplish the same goal as higher-par holes, of separating the competition by execution of shots (or failure to do so). Not so much at the top, but the middle and bottom of the field are competing, too.
* Many holes yield more birdies than bogeys. Par-2s and other "tough par" holes balance that out, by yielding more bogeys than birdies.
* They don't take up as much acreage, where space is limited.
* They're fun.

As of 2018 I think Par 2 has a place in competitive play. As par listed on permanent signage for most courses probably not so much.

At least not until the player rating system is converted into some kind of more easily understand handicap system. Then you could have tee signs that list different Pars based on Handicap.

That said if a whole course is a Par 2 layout, which I think changes a players mindset up front, I'm totally on board with that.

 

[lyleoross]

As long as we get to call the par 2 course a pitch and putt course, like they do in golf, I'm okay with the premise. Let's not call the holes serious though. Of all the holes that play par 2 out there, only a handful offer a real challenge, that is, if you screw up you pay a price.

I'm gonna disagree with David on the fun thing though. Shooting a fish in a barrel seems fun, until you do it. Then it's just boring.

 

[DavidSauls]

As long as we get to call the par 2 course a pitch and putt course, like they do in golf, I'm okay with the premise. Let's not call the holes serious though. Of all the holes that play par 2 out there, only a handful offer a real challenge, that is, if you screw up you pay a price.

I'm gonna disagree with David on the fun thing though. Shooting a fish in a barrel seems fun, until you do it. Then it's just boring.

Perhaps we're talking abut different things.

At my skill level, there are holes that play Par 2---for me---in that if I execute well I've got a 2, and keep pace with the competition, but if I screw up, which is a possibility, I've got a 3 or 4 and am losing ground. Where the screw-up is enough to worry about.

I'm not bored. There's pressure for me to be sure I get that 2.

Many of these involve cool throws---usually downhill, sometimes something else---that are in some way fun, beyond mere competition or the general fun of throwing discs. Something more.

A whole course of these would be redundant, but about 3 out of 18 are fine with me.

 

[lyleoross]

Perhaps we're talking abut different things.

At my skill level, there are holes that play Par 2---for me---in that if I execute well I've got a 2, and keep pace with the competition, but if I screw up, which is a possibility, I've got a 3 or 4 and am losing ground. Where the screw-up is enough to worry about.

I'm not bored. There's pressure for me to be sure I get that 2.

Many of these involve cool throws---usually downhill, sometimes something else---that are in some way fun, beyond mere competition or the general fun of throwing discs. Something more.

A whole course of these would be redundant, but about 3 out of 18 are fine with me.

I agree, but that is for you and me. Many of those holes are gimmes for top players. Often enough, we mix the two worlds here. I'm all happy with that for us, but I want more for the top guys.

 

[Doofenshmirtz]

Besides, there's nothing wrong with those holes being par 3s. They'd still do their job in separating players by skill.

Don't they do that without respect to the par designation? Couldn't they do that even with a "Par 0" designation?

 

[DavidSauls]

I agree, but that is for you and me. Many of those holes are gimmes for top players. Often enough, we mix the two worlds here. I'm all happy with that for us, but I want more for the top guys.

Yes, very true. My assumption is that if some holes work as Par 2s for me, there will be other holes that work as Par 2s at the top level.

 

[broomerang]

Yes, very true. My assumption is that if some holes work as Par 2s for me, there will be other holes that work as Par 2s at the top level.

All the more reason to notate Par on signage by Handicap.