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Pencil Whippers - How do you deal with them?
- Thread starter juju
- Start date
Yes!!
jcf5083
Double Eagle Member
I'm definitely quoting this in my sig!
jcrab66
Double Eagle Member
occasionally i will be stuck on a card with someone who improperly reports a hole score, which i always call them on if i know it to be wrong. I also always keep backup score using my pdga app and make sure everyone knows i am doing it before the round, seems to work pretty well...
Yup he did it all. I was just telling more of his bs tales.
It is so annoying when someone says the wrong score.
You must call these people out every time they do this.
Once after a tournament was over, I was going through the holes I played in my head and realized that I had said 7 on a hole when I got an 8. I called the TD up the next morning to tell them that I had scored my card wrong. Unfortunately there was nothing that could be done about it. I am just glad that I did not cash in that event, and that no one was closer than 4 strokes behind my score.
But I felt terrible about it for weeks.
You must call these people out every time they do this.
Once after a tournament was over, I was going through the holes I played in my head and realized that I had said 7 on a hole when I got an 8. I called the TD up the next morning to tell them that I had scored my card wrong. Unfortunately there was nothing that could be done about it. I am just glad that I did not cash in that event, and that no one was closer than 4 strokes behind my score.
But I felt terrible about it for weeks.
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Calling out the wrong score can be unintentional. Changing the score on a score card is alway intentional. Mistakes happen and can usually be caught by the other card mates. I wouldn't take the steps in this thread for someone who occasionally messes up their score.
Yes calling the score out wrong once a round can be unintentional. But when the same person does it on four or five holes, well....
It's even more annoying when the person is like "uh I forget"
I can usually call people out on this stuff as I always know what everyone in my group is shooting. If the person is struggling on a hole, I usually confirm with other people in my group "that was for 5 right" Makes it easier when the hole is over for everyone to be on the same page.
It's even more annoying when the person is like "uh I forget"
I can usually call people out on this stuff as I always know what everyone in my group is shooting. If the person is struggling on a hole, I usually confirm with other people in my group "that was for 5 right" Makes it easier when the hole is over for everyone to be on the same page.
FredVegasDGC
Double Eagle Member
The best thing would be to keep an extra score during the round and after the cheater has signed his score and turned in the wrong score then the TD can DQ him for turning in a incorrect score card.
NOSteveLA
Eagle Member
Does it work that way? My experience is that the TDs count up the scores and make sure the total is correct. If not correct score +2 strokes. Once the score card is in is that your score (even if you didn't shoot it)?
Chris I don't fault a new player who comes to the next tee and says "I think....I got a 5?....(thinks for a bit..group helps him/her talk through the hole)....no I got a 4 right?".
Usually this happens after a long hole where everyone was searching for discs or other unusually long breaks for bad play or just freak events. MA2 I run across this a lot and don't think the majority of players are trying to cheat they just have hard time remembering. I have to stop myself sometimes after a missed duece. Those pars feel like a bogey :gross:.
Pencil whipping to me is:
1) Having score card and writing a number other than what you tell the group. Saying I got a 4 but carding a 3.
2) Erasing a score and putting something different.
Mind Expansi0n
Banned
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2011
- Messages
- 559
I find it's usually the people that "don't want to hear anyone's scores or say my score" types that are prepping the card for a little shifting. I've even seen it done after a tourney round, as the person is supposed to be turning in the card, suddenly they drop a few strokes on the way to turn it in. I have no issue calling someone out for trying to cheat; forgetting your score on a long hole happens, your 5's changing to 4's when the card passes to you is BS.
Originally Posted by chris deitzel View Post
For PDGA events they need to make this model the standard...
Everyone in the group gets a scorecard.
Everyone keeps everyone's score (in the same name order on all cards)
At end of round everyone compares everyone's scores.
This way you make sure there is no cheating.
All players in group have to go to the TD after round and turn in one card that is correct.
And it makes it easier for the TD to check cards, because there should not be any errors in scoring as the group just checked all 3-5 cards to makes sure everyone has the same score.
I have seen this used a few times and it is the only way you can stop people from cheating.
For PDGA events they need to make this model the standard...
Everyone in the group gets a scorecard.
Everyone keeps everyone's score (in the same name order on all cards)
At end of round everyone compares everyone's scores.
This way you make sure there is no cheating.
All players in group have to go to the TD after round and turn in one card that is correct.
And it makes it easier for the TD to check cards, because there should not be any errors in scoring as the group just checked all 3-5 cards to makes sure everyone has the same score.
I have seen this used a few times and it is the only way you can stop people from cheating.
Well it's not just men who do this...there is a girl named Darlene Teal who lives in Ontario Canada that lies about her score at every event. I was a TD at one event and she even had the nerve to call the ODSA, the following day, about us changing her score. Not that she said even a word to us the day of. The score cards were checked by the ladies as a group and by the TD's before they were entered. We kept all the cards, so as the calls came our way, we had the unaltered proof from both rounds, to yet again proove she is a liar. It disgusts me that people need to cheat to win. Don't play events or league if you suck that bad; because cheating isn't going to help your game or fame.
kfellmy
Bogey Member
Got a guy like that here, he isn't allowed to play in any club events or sanctioned tourneys. When playing casual rounds and he wants to join up with us. We ignore him. No one ever says a word to him. No it's not Sal either.
blur
Par Member
AGREED!!!
Is it really that difficult to keep track of 4 players scores for a single hole? Only one person should be throwing at a time. Watch the other players shoot and keep scores.
Anytime there is an 'official' game, watch everyone throw and keep their score too. "You had two shots from those bushes" or "that was a water hazard", etc.
IMHO the problem here is not that the person is cheating, but the fact that people are not keeping scores properly.
If you are concerned with someone cheating, don't AVOID the group. JOIN their group and watch their every throw, keeping score. Don't be an ass and get upset with them, just show them that they are being watched and cheating is not acceptable.
Lastly, there will always be people who want to cheat. Create an environment where people don't want to cheat or feel that they can possibly cheat.
Well said!
rj29274
Double Eagle Member
You would think that MPO touring players would oblige this rule. . .yet, as history tells us, some choose to cheat to gain a few strokes. It has happened before and will mostly likely happen again. I got to see one occasion in person. . .Boy was his face red!
Mr. America
* Ace Member *
I caught a guy whipping his card this weekend and called him out at the end of the round.
We got the TD and showed him and the offender that he wrote 3's on two consecutive holes he 4'd.
He also lied about his score on a really long hole (1000') and to be honest I went on the other side of the fairway and didn't see all his throws (my mistake).
The 2 others in our group agreed with me and were pissed. The TD did nothing, maybe he misunderstood my way of calling the guy out. He didn't make mistakes on his card he cheated.
The next round the group watched him like a hawk and kept his score and never passed him the cards, he tried 4-5 tiems to lie about his score. They caught him every time and he DFLd off the lead card.
He also moved an object illegally to clear his throwing motion that we gave him a warning on.
What a jerk!
He better not show up to a future tourney I'm playing in.
Where was this at? PM me if you don't want to say publicly. It wasn't me, I don't play PDGA events or anything, BTW
When I find a player who seems to regularly cheat, it is usually in my local minis -- though I have never had a sanctioned tourney round with any of the guys I know of who cheat. I once watched an experienced player who was having a tough day four-putt in a mini (3 misses + the gimme) and the next tee box was literally 25-30 ft away, and he called out "4" when asked.
But here is what I do. Once I see that they've "forgotten" their number of strokes (usually by one or two less than normal) more than once suspiciously, I begin getting under their skin. From then on, I'll call out every shot they take as they begin to address marking their lie. "This is your second, correct?" loud nough for everyone to hear; then I ususally get a first look like "Yeah, alright, OK, enough." Then whatever happens, I keep doing it. "This is your three now -- we agreed it was two last time." "This putt is for four" "The gimme hole-out makes five" and so on for every shot on every remaining hole. If they tee-off OB, I'll say "you get up to one meter in, shooting three," again out loud so there is no mistaking what I am doing.
And if he says, "how'd you like it if I did that to you?", I typically reply with, "no problem...I'll do the same for myself." And then I do.
And for those who pencil whip when they have the card, I do what a lot of people said, I keep my everyone's score on an online app, and MAKE SURE to do the comparison at the end of the round. And if I suspect he pencil whipped when he scored, I usually ask to see the card for comparison two or three times DURING the round.
But here is what I do. Once I see that they've "forgotten" their number of strokes (usually by one or two less than normal) more than once suspiciously, I begin getting under their skin. From then on, I'll call out every shot they take as they begin to address marking their lie. "This is your second, correct?" loud nough for everyone to hear; then I ususally get a first look like "Yeah, alright, OK, enough." Then whatever happens, I keep doing it. "This is your three now -- we agreed it was two last time." "This putt is for four" "The gimme hole-out makes five" and so on for every shot on every remaining hole. If they tee-off OB, I'll say "you get up to one meter in, shooting three," again out loud so there is no mistaking what I am doing.
And if he says, "how'd you like it if I did that to you?", I typically reply with, "no problem...I'll do the same for myself." And then I do.
And for those who pencil whip when they have the card, I do what a lot of people said, I keep my everyone's score on an online app, and MAKE SURE to do the comparison at the end of the round. And if I suspect he pencil whipped when he scored, I usually ask to see the card for comparison two or three times DURING the round.
