I would call you for a courtesy violation if you tried that. That is annoying head games, if you need to count my score do it in your head and double check my math at the end of the hole.
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Pencil Whippers - How do you deal with them?
- Thread starter juju
- Start date
I would call you for a courtesy violation if you tried that. That is annoying head games, if you need to count my score do it in your head and double check my math at the end of the hole.
tarel
Double Eagle Member
Slash his tires.
I always keep a scorecard for the following reasons.
1. forget who is who on card write wrong score for wrong person
2. almost never want to rotate card[obvious daddy issues]
3. i have to remind them of how they played the hole when they say 4 and its more and we have to count out strokes[really annoying during pdga play, also prob abandonment and/or no father figure, see #2]
4. my own records
Best score system was done at the New jersey jam both years I went. Everyone in the group gets a card, cards have to match. problem solved.
I always keep a scorecard for the following reasons.
1. forget who is who on card write wrong score for wrong person
2. almost never want to rotate card[obvious daddy issues]
3. i have to remind them of how they played the hole when they say 4 and its more and we have to count out strokes[really annoying during pdga play, also prob abandonment and/or no father figure, see #2]
4. my own records
Best score system was done at the New jersey jam both years I went. Everyone in the group gets a card, cards have to match. problem solved.
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juju
Double Eagle Member
- Joined
- May 30, 2010
- Messages
- 1,558
So he showed up to another league last night. The cheating incident was known by the league director but the cheater was still allowed to play. I am boycotting that league until the ban is recognized.
Absolutely preposterous to continue allowing him to play.
Absolutely preposterous to continue allowing him to play.
We've got a few pencil whippers in our area. It is annoying. Don't let this guy bother you or stop you from playing. The director SHOULD ban him but some people don't like confrontation. Just make sure everyone that plays with him knows what he's about and its their own fault if they don't keep a hawks eye on him. I agree with some that the system needs tweeked a little. Everyone in the group should keep score or have one person that keeps the groups score the entire round while the other 3 players trade the official card off every 6 holes and the two cards need to match at the end. I've lost to a cheater before and it sucks!
MrGlass01
* Ace Member *
do people call him out on the spot? Maybe the people that know he is a cheater could be very loud and say that he is a cheater. Who would play with him then? Just curious how the league director knew.
juju
Double Eagle Member
- Joined
- May 30, 2010
- Messages
- 1,558
Multiple incidents of pencil whipping and giving the wrong score. There have been a few threads on our local board with 100+ comments. Almost everyone has a story about him cheating or trying to cheat. TD's/LD's know about all of this, I guess they put him on a card with some new people last night (which is a terrible idea IMO).
You are right, nobody wants to play with him anymore. People will even ask to be moved to a different card. I on that other hand will not even play the league until the ban is enforced.
MrGlass01
* Ace Member *
^ wow. I still cannot figure out why he bothers to show up. I understand why you are boycotting the leagues, it sucks he is ruining this for you and other players. Dont let him ruin your fun though if at all possible.
gdub58
Birdie Member
I think it has already been mentioned, but do it like in ball golf tournaments. Each person in the group has a card, and they keep their own score and the score of one other person. At the end of each hole, every player has to announce their score to the group, and if there is any disagreement it is resolved before starting the next hole.
No cards are passed (never have liked this practice in disc golf), and at the end of the round each person adds up their own score and verifies it with the other member of the group who kept their score.
Unfortunately, this seems too formal for some and so we end up with the nonsense described in this and other threads.
No cards are passed (never have liked this practice in disc golf), and at the end of the round each person adds up their own score and verifies it with the other member of the group who kept their score.
Unfortunately, this seems too formal for some and so we end up with the nonsense described in this and other threads.
joshmo65
Eagle Member
This for sure. Do courtesy violations have to be seconded? If this is the case, and you are cheating, then obviously no one would second it.
In regards to pencil whipping... why don't we write scores in pen? Bleeds when it gets wet? That way, any changes that occur on the scorecard are obvious and can be contested. I actually thought that there was a no eraser mark rule?
pablo.diablo
Eagle Member
You should make him (and/or everybody) verbally declare what # he is shooting on each throw for everybody on the card to hear.
Although it would suck if you are about to putt and someone is yelling which throw they are on from another hole. Maybe they could just hold their fingers up for everytone to see before each throw.
"I'm Shooting 2"...(or hold up 2 fingers)
etc
What would be great is if whomever is keeping score on the scorecard also has one of those counter-clicker things like baseball umpires have to keep strikes/balls with. But one with 4 counters on it for cards of 4. As each person throws you click the counter for their quadrant.
Although it would suck if you are about to putt and someone is yelling which throw they are on from another hole. Maybe they could just hold their fingers up for everytone to see before each throw.
"I'm Shooting 2"...(or hold up 2 fingers)
etc
What would be great is if whomever is keeping score on the scorecard also has one of those counter-clicker things like baseball umpires have to keep strikes/balls with. But one with 4 counters on it for cards of 4. As each person throws you click the counter for their quadrant.
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pablo.diablo
Eagle Member
With such a counter, you would reset it to zero after each hole. Everybody must agree on the tally before it is recorded on the actual scorecard.
FTFY
I've suggested for some time now that at the very least, each card (at least in the Intermediate divisions and below) be mandated have at least two scorecard sets with them which must be crosschecked before one of them is turned in as official. Not only would it deter cheaters, it would help alleviate honest mistakes, and help new players get familiarized with the proper technique of taking scores.
gdub58
Birdie Member
The problem is not that people have trouble counting, it's that one person is keeping the score for everyone, and the norm is that everyone in the group has an opportunity to have that single scorecard and do shady things with it.
Honest mistakes happen fairly regularly. I don't know how many times in a tournament the first person with the card mistakenly starts on hole 1 rather than our actual starting hole. Then later we discover the mistake and have to carefully adjust the scorecard to put the correct scores on the correct holes. If done in pen, that would be nearly impossible to correct.
There are also adding errors, putting hole 10 in the "out" column, putting scores in the wrong rows, etc.
pablo.diablo
Eagle Member
^^ Right but if there was a VISIBLE counter for everyone to confirm at the end of each hole then there would be no question, so long as the agreed tally is transferred to the scorecard right then and there. Having a visual cue would also help people remember scores for holes (and other players) later on if there was scorecard tampering.
The problem is that your system relies on whoever is operating the counter to be attentive to every stroke at all times. This simply isn't the reality at pretty much every disc golf tournament I've ever been to. There are sometimes also disputes regarding whether a penalty needs to be assessed.
pablo.diablo
Eagle Member
If I can do it in my head (for 4 players), then someone can do it on a counter. It's not that hard, and it's certainly easier than relying on memory.
I do agree it is just another thing to keep track of and we are supposed to rely on fair play and everybody being able to remember their own throws, which we know doesn't happen all the time.
But what I am saying is that if there is a continual problem keeping scores straight at a local mini or whatever, this is a potential fix whether it be a temporary solution to resolve cheating and whatnot. I do not think it would be a great idea for tourneys.
I do agree it is just another thing to keep track of and we are supposed to rely on fair play and everybody being able to remember their own throws, which we know doesn't happen all the time.
But what I am saying is that if there is a continual problem keeping scores straight at a local mini or whatever, this is a potential fix whether it be a temporary solution to resolve cheating and whatnot. I do not think it would be a great idea for tourneys.
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