Reach back as far as you can

[rlangton]

I've read many guides on drives that suggest "reaching back" with your disc as far as you possibly can and then whipping the arm across your body. I think this is bad advice for beginners. I have personally dislocated my shoulder 3 times over the course of 2 years and I feel a lot of the cause was because I was heeding this advice. The dislocation occured as my arm was moving across my body after being stretched behind me very far. It's always been very painful and has caused limited mobility in my throwing shoulder (I notice it now when doing other things such as playing softball).

After taking 2 years off from the sport I've come back and am not emphasizing the "reach back with the disc" near as much as I used to. It feels like I'm now getting much better spin (throwing more with my wrist and not from the shoulder) and am getting as good if not better drives than ever. Also in all the video I've watched I've seen very little emphasis on the "reach back" portion of a drive from the pros.

Just a warning to beginners, be careful how you interpret guides. Also what do some of you more experienced players think? How much do you emphasis "reaching back" before the throw (straight arm, locked elbow, extended shoulder)? Have you ever heard of others dislocating or injuring their shoulder like I have?

 

[mobster]

My friends and I started a year ago and I'm the only one that really reaches back with the x-step. With the x-step, you turn your back away from the target and this helps your body and legs move the arm across the body. I can see how someone could hurt their shoulder by trying to crank out a drive by just using their arm.

 

[ehillis]

The main way people hurt themselves like this is by reaching back and then whipping their arm more around their body than straight through the throwing zone right next to the body. Also, you can easily use the reach back and x-step without throwing hard at all and throw farther than if you throw as hard as you can with poor form. If you are hurting yourself you are probably either throwing too hard or have a hitch in your motion. I'd suggest trying to videotape your throwing motion then watching it to see if it looks smooth or if there is some kink somewhere.

I absolutely advocate the x-step and reaching straight back though, even if you dont throw at fell strength.

 

[rlangton]

Obviously I use the x-step and I also advocate others doing the same. I don't think theres any danger in doing so. The potential for injury is if you fully extend the arm and shoulder behind you while turned away from the target. I feel this part of the delivery is unnecessary and is not documented well in "beginners guides" that I have read. Extend the elbow, sure. Reach back and stretch with the shoulder, dangerous. In my opinion and experience.

 

[ehillis]

Whenever I say the x-step, I mean the full reach back as well. I think that the full reach back is a very natural part of the full x-step and essential for achieving good form and maximum distance, even if you dont throw with full strength.

If you are getting hurt then I would strongly suggest that you are using the wrong form or throwing too hard. The solution may also be as simple as taking a few minutes to stretch the deltoids and triceps and generally loosening up the shoulders before a round. One more idea may be to think about using your entire body rather than just your arm to throw. Some players can throw ou their arms and shoulders by neglecting their lower bodies and other large muscle groups.

Almost all experienced players use this form though, and it is the general concensus that it is the best way to achieve accuracy and distance.

 

[Marv Vega]

I've never heard of a shoulder dislocation from a disc golf drive, sounds painful. Some people are more prone to joint injuries than others. I concur with the advice of stretching, especially the Deltoid. I also think it's important to make sure the arm is pulled across the chest to minimize the stress on the Deltoid as well. Strengthening the shoulder and surrounding muscles will give it support and reduce the liklelihood of future dislocations. Make sure to really use the hips, legs, and core with your drives, this is where the power is. Concetrate on the follow through and less on the exaggerated reach back. Just my two cents.

 

[Shank]

Watch a discus thrower sometime. They never actually pull their arm across their body. What they are doing is kind of what the x-step mimics. They spin with there body and their upper arm basically 90* from there body. This provides incredible momentum. It takes full advantage of centripitual force X their body wieght.

I throw right handed so my first step of the three involved in the x-step is with my right. This step only truely serves me to set up up my next step. It is not 90* to where I am aim but close to it. This builds the tension up in your upper body as you immediately turn it slightly backwards: hips, torso, arm and my left foot. This foot position also forces me to put most of my weight on my left foot with the next step. It is kind of like pulling back on a rubber band. At this point my upper arm is almost 90* in perspective to my torso. The next step and motion is where all of my power comes from. The spin and weight transfer from basically spinning your whole body is something you will feel when you do it correctly. You can kind of feel the disc pulling you around, the disc itself will just rip out of your grip as opposed to you just releasing it. Hearing a snapping sound is a good sign. I guess not if it is your shoulder but rather the disc.

I do throw quite a few forehands in a round. I find myself keeping my arm in a straight position if I have to to a low ceiling type shots, line drives and hyzers. I really only adopt the bent elbow when I go for anhyzers. Some where along the way I adopted throwing anhyzers for long approach shots and putts in this fashion of the bent elbow. It kind of just transfered over into my drives as well.

 

[garublador]

Whenever I say the x-step, I mean the full reach back as well. I think that the full reach back is a very natural part of the full x-step and essential for achieving good form and maximum distance, even if you dont throw with full strength.

Here's an article that has some pretty strong arguments on why you shouldn't reach back as far as possible with the disc:

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/resources/articles/distancesecrets.shtml

The jist of it is that reaching back with a bent elbow promotes correct arm movement and elbow extension which is much more important than disc speed.

 

[Ty9339]

i've only been playing for a little over 2.5 years but i find that my arm is just the lever, my legs, hips and wrist do most of the work

 

[rlangton]

Here's an article that has some pretty strong arguments on why you shouldn't reach back as far as possible with the disc:

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/resources/articles/distancesecrets.shtml

The jist of it is that reaching back with a bent elbow promotes correct arm movement and elbow extension which is much more important than disc speed.

Great article.. and nothing in there about extending your arm and shoulder back behind you in the x-step as far as possible.. I think there's just a lot of bad advice out there on how to do the proper x-step drive.. this looks like one of the few good ones.

 

[Asvetic]

It's not how far back you reach, it's how long you can extend the arm forward... there's a natural breaking point that you reach that the mind tells the hand to release the disc... resulting in a premature release. You have to learn to over come this breaking point.

 

[Cool Daddio]

Right On Asvetic

At 48 years old and not throwing for 20 years I had my fourth and fifth fingers (ulnar nerve) numb all day the first time I tried driving again and it has taken me two months of daily throwing to get back to the place I could convince my hand to hold on until the rip and FINALLY got a straight 300 foot throw. I was really starting to feel like an old man The resources mentioned by garublator are excellent!

 

[Disc Dog]

I do reach back and extend my arm and then I pull through. This has added about 50 feet to my drive and helped to prevent OAT.

I have no trouble with any arm pain or anything else. I have had people comment on it, but in the same context they say how smooth it is.

The first time I saw it used effectively was by a female pro that I got teamed up with for doubles. She was very accurate and could crush the throw.

It has to be done with the x step and with the hips leading the way but it works.

 

[klay]

Hard to argue with the technique of reigning a reigning world champion...



His RHBH reach back is about as far back as you can get. Even before I saw this video posted the other day I've been gradually building up to a reach back very similar to this.

It has led to a significant increase in driving distance and accuracy over the course of the summer.

So count me on the side of adopting and embracing the full reach back.

 

[ChainMan]

I do reach back pretty deeply but just this side of as far back as I can. In Avery's video there it still looks like he never "locks" the elbow. I think it is key not to lock the elbow. Having gotten back into the sport after only playing casually for many years I couldn't figure out where my distance had gone. I could still out distance most players but I was arm throwing and it hurt like hell. One day when the course was busy I joined up with one of the locals who is very good. I immediately noticed his big reach back and remembered that's how I used to throw. It took me a little while to get the timing back but the jump in distance was amazing.

BUT it only works if I pull hard with my left leg in preparation for the plant which makes my hips the first part of my body to initiate the turning of my body towards the target. The shoulders naturally have to turn next. That puts the disc next to my chest without really ever having to do much of anything with my shoulder. Up to that point the forward motion of the disc has been created with footwork and core rotation. The shoulder and triceps just have to finish the punch through the hit point.

My shoulder is so much less fatigued now because of a deeper reach back. But I do want to emphasis I don't reach back as "far as I can" and I don't advocate it. Like most things there is a sweet spot.

 

[Technohic]

I hurt my shoulder trying to really crush one by reaching back really far, but I thought it was just because I had bad shoulders.

 

[Twistedhorse]

reacihing back or reaching out?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpmU5DF_2cE

 

[T.D. Todd]

"Reachback" makes me think about sticking my arm out. This also tends to make me tip backwards. Not too good.

I think it's more a byproduct of weight shift with a tense, or locked, shoulder and upper arm with the elbow away from the body. The arm lags behind and almost looks like a reach. You can feel it when it happens. Then bending your elbow pretty much automatically pulls the disc in to your chest.

These days I focus on turning and think more about catching the disc from behind me and guiding it in than reaching and pulling. Almost like one-handing a football with your chest for back up.

 

[twistedraven]

If your plant foot is staggered far out in front of your rear foot, your reach out is in fact straight back from the target, otherwise you would be shooting off way to the left.

There is a footwork video where Danny from DD talks about the amount of stagger you have in your brace and how it typically is used for shot angle. For instance, you'll typically see people approach roller angles with an extreme angled approach, and hyzer angles with a very straight on approach. Of course the angle of your upper body impacts this too.

I too support the idea that it is a reach out away from your body moreso than a reach back. Straight reachback promotes rounding, while reach out promotes a clean pull into the chest.

 

[flatflip]

The reachback isn't super important to get good distance. You can look at the guys with super smooth form like Bradley Williams and it is obvious that they are way more worried about how their body is bracing for the hit than how far the disc travels before the hit. Everything is focused on acceleration at release. A long reach helps some folks, a wide rail helps others. That long strech can definitely trigger a plyometric bounce forward, but it's hard to do anything with it if you are out of balance at the hit.

The Beato drill is great b/c it encourages you to build a stroke from the hit point back.

Uli did a pod recently and when questioned about the importance of reaching back; his response was something along the line of: I don't reach back. The disc stays still while I am moving forward, and my arm has to extend to stay with it. I drive from there once I get planted for the hit.