Rebuilding CLard's throw

[sidewinder22]

Waaaaait, wait wait wait.

Roll the wrist under?

Does that not make you throw nose up?

More extension = more nose down.

 

[Kodachrome]

There must be something I'm missing.

I'm not understanding what you're trying to say. Rolling the wrist under means rolling your palm to face the ground, which is nose up.

 

[ClydesdaleDan]

There must be something I'm missing.

I'm not understanding what you're trying to say. Rolling the wrist under means rolling your palm to face the ground, which is nose up.

Hold the disc at your release point with your wrist rolling under just like you are picturing and the disc will appear nose up. Now open your "lock" fingers and swing the disc around your pivot point. The disc should now be nose down.

 

[Kodachrome]

Hold the disc at your release point with your wrist rolling under just like you are picturing and the disc will appear nose up. Now open your "lock" fingers and swing the disc around your pivot point. The disc should now be nose down.

Just went and tested, thank you.

I really crank my wrist down...basics always say to really get that wrist down, so I'd always tried to keep it down and level, not under or over rotating. Rolling under feels a lot more natural, just feels stronger. Wonder if it's been robbing me of some extra feet?

 

[clard]

It feels like you are forcing the disc nose up during the hit, but the end result is not more nose up. I threw two rounds yesterday and I'm convinced this a fundamental motion.

First hole of my home course is a 280' slight hyzer that I have dialed in. I always throw a P2 and I know how hard to throw it. I threw exactly the same as normal except I did the wrist roll...40' past the basket. Next hole, 300' released the same P2 way higher than I meant to, stalled out and it was still past the basket.

I think about 80-90% of my throws were slips before now.

 

[NathanNoodleArm]

Just to be clear, or maybe just another to say it...roll the wrist counter clockwise? So the palm is facing more towards the ground? Seems to go against everything you would think is correct.

 

[Kodachrome]

Just to be clear, or maybe just another to say it...roll the wrist counter clockwise? So the palm is facing more towards the ground? Seems to go against everything you would think is correct.

Agreed. But go grab a disc and just pretend to throw. You don't even have to let go of the lock fingers. Pause at the point of release and you will see that the lead edge of the disc is now pointed down as it begins to rotate out of your hand.

 

[clard]

Just to be clear, or maybe just another to say it...roll the wrist counter clockwise? So the palm is facing more towards the ground? Seems to go against everything you would think is correct.

Yes, palm towards the ground. It does seem crazy! I'm totally with you.

I need to take some video of this.

I had some of the farthest throws of my life over the past couple of days. This thing is legit.

 

[RocHucker]

I'd love to see some pictures clard of you holding a disc to show your grip at release (maybe before and after "extending" the disc) before and after your revelation. I'mhaving a hard time replicating what you're talking about, and I'm thinking that maybe I don't understand the extent to which the Palm is facing down

 

[hazed_0ut]

This actually makes a lot of sense. I've been watching that Feldberg/Climo clinic past couple days as I hadn't seen them in a while (I like to rewatch to help things click). But in it there is a part where he mentions following through, you should see the back of your hand, and "hence the name, backhand" - I always said to myself "that makes no sense, you would see my palm, not the back of my hand" - but you saying this, it now makes perfect sense. Excited to give it a try.

 

[Kodachrome]

Yes, palm towards the ground. It does seem crazy! I'm totally with you.

I need to take some video of this.

I had some of the farthest throws of my life over the past couple of days. This thing is legit.

Does it cause you to throw with more hyzer? Just dry running, it seems to point nose down but also naturally hyzer.

Tomorrow is a course day, dunno if I feel like trying another new thing on top of revamping my x step.

 

[hazed_0ut]

Does it cause you to throw with more hyzer? Just dry running, it seems to point nose down but also naturally hyzer.

Tomorrow is a course day, dunno if I feel like trying another new thing on top of revamping my x step.

Don't quote me as I haven't tried this yet, but my guess is you still have to set your angle. If you're "rolling" and naturally coming out hyzer, you still have to set your wrist angle too so that when you "roll" it's straight. Remember your back has a lot to do with hyzer/anhyzer as well (toward/backward tilt)

 

[clard]

For me, it does cause a slight angle change and make everything come out with a bit more hyzer. Making things come out with more hyzer, and fly more stable (not sure if it is just release angle or "OS wobble" or both) has been AWESOME. There is a 167 champ Tern that I just couldn't release full power without dipping into such a deep hyzer that I was off balance, and now I can throw it with slight hyzer and roll my hand under and it booms. Watching video of my throws things are definitively coming out with more hyzer angle because of this rolling action.

One of the keys to this working is adjusting your grip. I always had my thumb directly over my pointer and middle fingers creating a "lock" point. With the wrist roll action you want to grip it like I see Simon and Nikko doing with the thumb further out on the flight plate. I had tried this thumb on the flight plate business before and the disc just slipped out basically every time. No idea what was going on. The problem was that the thumb out on the flight plate only works if you roll your hand/arm under during the disc ejection.

Why? It's actually really easy to feel. Take a disc and grip it with the thumb positioned over the ring/middle finger (my old grip) now put your other hand on the opposite side of the disc and bend the disc wing up. You should feel like you aren't in a position to have much leverage against this action with your gripping hand.

Now take your thumb and move it out on the flight plate. Again, try to bend the disc wing up and feel how much more leverage you have with the thumb out farther.

So that feeling of trying to bend the disc up against your other hand is the feeling I'm going for at release. The disc, for a few different reasons, will act as the "other hand" resisting the roll under and will make the disc ejection extremely strong.

I really want to know if this works for anyone else! Let me know if you have any success with this.

 

[NathanNoodleArm]

I tried this last night on the way home from work, just 20 quick throws. The wind was blowing like crazy but everything was more stable and on more of a hyzer. I feel like there is potential there but I need to do more work. I got the same or more distance with what felt like less effort. The tips in your post will give me some more tweaks to try. I've been looking at Blake's thumb push post as well. With all this said I may still not be ready for this advanced technique.

 

[clard]

I tried this last night on the way home from work, just 20 quick throws. The wind was blowing like crazy but everything was more stable and on more of a hyzer. I feel like there is potential there but I need to do more work. I got the same or more distance with what felt like less effort. The tips in your post will give me some more tweaks to try. I've been looking at Blake's thumb push post as well. With all this said I may still not be ready for this advanced technique.

I think this technique is something that can benefit almost everyone. Now that I get it, I think this is a fundamental aspect of the throw, and doing this combination of thumb slightly further out + rolling under through the hit means that you are getting ALL of the power you are generating transferred through to this disc.

As far as changes to technique go this is an easy one. Lots of other technique changes are REALLY hard and require syncing a bunch of motions together with perfect timing, but this is one pretty small change that (compared to everything else I've done over the past 2 or 3 years of technique work) was implemented easily and quickly. Let me know if you experiment with it more.

 

[NathanNoodleArm]

I also don't power grip so I'm trying to adapt your concepts to my version of a fan grip.

I was wondering if this should get split out of your form thread by a mod? Possible that people might not be looking in here and there is some good info...

 

[clard]

I also don't power grip so I'm trying to adapt your concepts to my version of a fan grip.

I was wondering if this should get split out of your form thread by a mod? Possible that people might not be looking in here and there is some good info...

I wouldn't be surprised if HUB or I write up something on this concept in the near future. A new thread is a good idea.

 

[RFrance]

There is definitely something going on with this. I just came back from the practice field and was able to add 10-15 feet consistently on my throws. I had also read about Blake's thumb push but was using a pinch grip at that time at it wouldn't have worked. Now I'm using a three finger grip and just moved my thumb about 1/2 to 3/4 inch in towards the center. Felt like much better control and more power.

 

[hazed_0ut]

Agreed, this works. Though I kept my same grip, with my thumb over my index knuckle rather than moving it out. I played 2 rounds today and played some of my best golf yet. I wouldn't say I added any distance really, maybe a little (wasn't really trying to, still working on other things), but what I noticed was doing this, with a combo of working on "working around" the disc on my drives, my throws were cleaner, more accurate, and just felt better. I'll have to try it with my thumb out more but it just doesn't look comfortable. We'll see what happens.

 

[rhatton1]

oh for longer thumbs and fingers.... my stumpy little digits can't even begin to get to the second picture...