Rebuilding CLard's throw

[rhatton1]

And yes you do look like an underfed orang utan especially in that top

I am ridiculously jealous of your stupidly long limbs!!

 

[sidewinder22]

Makes sense, you have to actively pull it through the pivot (this being the last last last stage of it all, good body positions have bought most of the disc edge round, then the last break from your palm and other fingers is the final pivot) which would indicate a hard throw, if you kind of pussy it and don't get the hit right, it will slip out early and go nose up. Look at the picture i snap shotted of you again, currently the disc is slightly nose down, it's still going to sling around your pinch point slightly more as you actively pull your thumb forward and under, the bit of the disc that is directly opposite your thumb will be the nose of the disc at release.

100% agree with the bold, BlakeT's myth of disc pivot. The disc "pivots" because you are pushing/pulling it around. The nose relative to the thumb depends on what clock you actually rip or slip from as the leading edge at release is always the nose.

 

[sidewinder22]

Is there a benefit to pronating/rolling under at release vs already being there at max reach back?

I'll add that at reachback I'm typically totally supinated like Brinster into the under swing plane/hyzer/level to shoulder plane. It's a different loading than if you were pronated at reachback. If I'm pronated at reachback the only swing plane I have power through my body on is swinging over the top/anhyzer.

 

[clard]

 

[slowplastic]

I bet if filmed from the side you aren't forward enough toward the front of the teepad over the right leg. You aren't following/swinging through or getting pulled through all the way. As well if you pause at the "power pocket" position your upper arm angle to the spine is pretty low...like your forearm is very low and the upper arm to spine is closer to 45 or lower rather than close to 90 and up. I bet this is from not having the right shoulder ahead of the right hip when viewed from the side...this helps leverage the shoulder/arm vs. getting the upper arm jammed.

 

[sidewinder22]

SUP stranger?

Get your shoulder over your knee. Nose over toes.

 

[clard]

Thanks, guys!

The old throw needs a tune up after a little while off. I'm pretty sure the reason I'm not nose over toes is because I've had it in my head that I always fall forward (or from the angle of the video, to the left) and I'm trying not to.

I appreciate that advice as always, and I'll be back with more soon.

 

[clard]

I bet if filmed from the side you aren't forward enough toward the front of the teepad over the right leg. You aren't following/swinging through or getting pulled through all the way.

I feel like I've always had trouble with this. I want to brace behind the front leg, and I end up leaning back towards the back of the teepad.

As well if you pause at the "power pocket" position your upper arm angle to the spine is pretty low...like your forearm is very low and the upper arm to spine is closer to 45 or lower rather than close to 90 and up. I bet this is from not having the right shoulder ahead of the right hip when viewed from the side...this helps leverage the shoulder/arm vs. getting the upper arm jammed.

Hopefully this part will be an easy fix. I think I'm trying to keep my arm loose and end of never bringing it up to the proper height.

 

[slowplastic]

I feel like I've always had trouble with this. I want to brace behind the front leg, and I end up leaning back towards the back of the teepad.


Hopefully this part will be an easy fix. I think I'm trying to keep my arm loose and end of never bringing it up to the proper height.

I don't think it's as easy as just trying to put the arm in the right place. It wasn't for me anyways. I always had my shoulder behind or above my hip, so it wasn't leveraged properly in sequence...so my arm wasn't "pulled" through from body leverage. So that meant the forearm would either squish upward or my elbow would go down. I'm feeling how to leverage my right shoulder from my hips, and that pulls the arm along. It doesn't really matter now where my backswing ends height-wise, my arm looks way better by the "power pocket" frames because it has to be pulled to that point from my shoulder being leveraged.

Basically:
-my forearm and disc would rise up because my shoulder was behind my hip
-my upper arm would be very low relative to spine when I was trying to swing with a flat shoulder plane rather than keeping the shoulder under chin leverage or rotation way. This is counterintuitive but it's the way the leverage works out I guess

 

[clard]

I was thinking of them as two separate issues which they may not be. Issue #1 being swing plane, and issue #2 being shoulder behind hip. Maybe my swing plane is jacked up to compensate for the hip/shoulder issue.

I always had my shoulder behind or above my hip, so it wasn't leveraged properly in sequence...so my arm wasn't "pulled" through from body leverage. So that meant the forearm would either squish upward or my elbow would go down. I'm feeling how to leverage my right shoulder from my hips, and that pulls the arm along. It doesn't really matter now where my backswing ends height-wise, my arm looks way better by the "power pocket" frames because it has to be pulled to that point from my shoulder being leveraged.

Do you have any prescription for how to work on this or feel the leverage from the hips?

And just to make sure we are on the same page, we are talking about shoulder forward of hip like Paul shows here, right?

 

[slowplastic]

Yes shoulder in front of hip exactly like that. Try to pendulum the right shoulder underneath your chin on the backswing AND the forward swing. Basically think of a ball golf swing with a club, lead shoulder under chin on backswing, then goes under chin in forward swing and then rear shoulder swings through the same place while lead shoulder finishes up.

So try to keep that same leverage in backswing and forward swing...for me when keeping this it got my right shoulder in front of the hip and also pulled the arm through better. Less early releases for sure too.

 

[clard]

Here are some throws from yesterday where I tried to squeeze between the knees, and to get the shoulder in front of the knee. Definitely mixed results, but the throws seem to get better later on. I included all of my throws for a good laugh at my struggles.

 

[billyjacko]

CLard in the house! This thread is the gold standard for chuckin' frisbees, and it's awesome to see it revived. I don't know if it's because you're trying so many different things in the standstill, but your set up seems to be wildly inconsistent. Sometimes super wide with no front hip pivot, sometimes narrow and crashing your weight over the front foot. You seem to consistently let your weight all go to the outside of your rear foot, but you still have great control of the hip rotation coming into the swing. Pull through reminds me of Seppo or Heimburg with the downward angle that turns into a ton of elastic looking pop/snap.

 

[sidewinder22]

You are crushing your foot/ankle and posture instead of the can, and pulling the door frame down from your upper body going over top instead of your butt leading forward and pulling the door frame from lower/CoG. Need to turn your front side further back land on toes first with heel up, then push the heel down from the rear side heel going up and with your body dynamic upright to the front leg from behind. Your stance is too wide and rolling your feet over instead of staying in more athletic stance and using your feet/plantar flexion pushing/bouncing the heels/weight around from the toes/insteps.

Note how your hips are centered between your feet and both heels are on the ground, they didn't shift forward and your head is aligned to your back foot, your front foot plants sideways and rolls over flat. Note how my hips moved forward butt leading and head is aligned upright to the front leg ankle/foot planting on toes first with heel up/plantar flexion to catch yourself athletically just like landing from a jump, you wouldn't land with your foot flat or rolled.

 

[slowplastic]

Yep...was going to say jamming into front hip instead of moving your weight onto the front leg in alignment/balance.

I would also try one leg drill setup and swings...with a disc or with something heavy, just to make sure you feel what it's like to be that far forward with the spine balanced over the right leg.

 

[clard]

I was trying to do too many things at once and things were going haywire. Those throws felt pretty awful. Going to reign things in a little bit and see how my normal throw feels compared to those. I always bow my front leg out in my throws and was trying really hard to keep the knee in/squeeze between the knees but it just felt wrong.

 

[slowplastic]

I was trying to do too many things at once and things were going haywire. Those throws felt pretty awful. Going to reign things in a little bit and see how my normal throw feels compared to those. I always bow my front leg out in my throws and was trying really hard to keep the knee in/squeeze between the knees but it just felt wrong.

Generally if you have to try to get into a position with part of your body, it's the wrong way about it. If you move your balance/weight to the front leg I bet your rear knee will come in and you'll get that squeeze between the knees look, because all your weight will be off the rear leg. And the front leg likely won't bow out the same from trying to hold you back.

 

[clard]

Generally if you have to try to get into a position with part of your body, it's the wrong way about it. If you move your balance/weight to the front leg I bet your rear knee will come in and you'll get that squeeze between the knees look, because all your weight will be off the rear leg. And the front leg likely won't bow out the same from trying to hold you back.

The one leg drill seems like what I need right now. I doing it a little bit inside, and it feels good. Gotta get the weight on my front leg.

 

[clard]

You are crushing your foot/ankle and posture instead of the can, and pulling the door frame down from your upper body going over top instead of your butt leading forward and pulling the door frame from lower/CoG. Need to turn your front side further back land on toes first with heel up, then push the heel down from the rear side heel going up and with your body dynamic upright to the front leg from behind. Your stance is too wide and rolling your feet over instead of staying in more athletic stance and using your feet/plantar flexion pushing/bouncing the heels/weight around from the toes/insteps.

Note how your hips are centered between your feet and both heels are on the ground, they didn't shift forward and your head is aligned to your back foot, your front foot plants sideways and rolls over flat. Note how my hips moved forward butt leading and head is aligned upright to the front leg ankle/foot planting on toes first with heel up/plantar flexion to catch yourself athletically just like landing from a jump, you wouldn't land with your foot flat or rolled.

On point as always. You think the one leg drill is the right idea for now? The feel is completely different and much more natural than the craziness I was trying to do before.

Thanks again!

 

[clard]

CLard in the house! This thread is the gold standard for chuckin' frisbees, and it's awesome to see it revived.

It's good to be back! I threw a little bit last year and I had missed it so much.

I don't know if it's because you're trying so many different things in the standstill, but your set up seems to be wildly inconsistent. Sometimes super wide with no front hip pivot, sometimes narrow and crashing your weight over the front foot. You seem to consistently let your weight all go to the outside of your rear foot, but you still have great control of the hip rotation coming into the swing. Pull through reminds me of Seppo or Heimburg with the downward angle that turns into a ton of elastic looking pop/snap.

Yea, I was all over the place with these throws for sure. Heimburg has been slaying it lately. It's really nice to see him playing well.