Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
Tier of event and strength of field matter.
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Ricky - 2020 vs 2017
- Thread starter Jah Plastifari
- Start date
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
Yes, in league or local C-tiers on shorter courses, locals can pull down ratings of top pros passing through.
The biggest misunderstanding of ratings seems to be that higher rated players help boost ratings and lower rated players in the field hurt ratings. It's the opposite happening in high level tournaments on long, tough courses, especially with extensive OB. Think of it this way, every stroke thrown and every penalty stroke earned by propagators will raise the SSA to determine the score for a 1000-rated round. But what's important is how many players shoot worse than their rating. More lower-rated players statistically shoot worse and get relatively more penalties in relation to their rating than higher rated players due to the difficulty of those high-level courses, tournament pressure and typically less practice time on those courses.
Whatever inflation some analysts might see, it will occur primarily on excessive OB courses where the OB penalties spread out the range of high to low round ratings a bit more than courses with little OB. This benefits those shooting the best rounds. In Ricky's case, maybe he played well in more OB riddled courses this past year than he did in 2017 to possibly account for his rating difference but it's not likely the only reason.
This is my observations over the years: You always want as many high rated players as possible at your event. Ratings in / ratings out is legit. But otherwise it's all about score separation. A low rated player can have some of the best round ratings of the season if they shoot a decent round and the higher rated players don't shoot lights out. But then again, that same low rated player can shoot the same score in a later tournament and have a much lower rating if the higher rated players shoot well.
Basically...it's....higher rated players help boost ratings potential for lower rated players if lower rated players shoot well. Lower rated players playing well will always hurt the ratings potential for higher rated players regardless how they shoot.
Bottom line... for low rated players, you want as little score separation as possible. For high rated players you want as much score separation as possible.
This seems like a gross over simplification.
If you're a propagator and you play poorly, it should raise the round rating for anyone else playing. If you're a propagator and you play well, it should hurt the rating of anyone else in the field.
As such if you're at your home course and play well it should hurt anyone else's in the fields rating, and if you go to a crazy long OBed up course and play poorly it should benefit anyone else's round rating.
Regardless, if Ricky won more in one year than in another he did better that year, period. It's the measure. I don't know Jack Nicklaus or Tiger Woods average score, I know how many majors they won. I don't know how good of a shooter Lebron or Jordan were, I just know how many championships they have. I don't even know what discs existed when Climo played, but he must've been pretty damn good.
I couldn't (I obviously couldn't lol) say it any better. :clap:
F.Luke
Double Eagle Member
Without emojis I can't tell.
Nick Pacific
Eagle Member
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2013
- Messages
- 992
Exactly. A local pro who is playing the pitch and putt courses in the 90's and 2000s who knew all the local routes could come out with his 970 rating and can every putt, shoot hot and match Kenny with his 1045 rating, at his 970 rating, and drag EVERYONE down with him. It is important to note that this does not happen anymore. Why? They have lengthened the courses up bigtime to where the minimum threshold distance to score is now out of range for the weekend pros not on tour.
Now there are no local pros showing up at the DGPT and shooting hot because they simply do not have the minimum required distance to score. They cannot birdie holes that require the 450 foot distance off the tee, regardless of how well they putt. Their approach shots on par 4's are always 70 + feet farther than touring pros, thus meaning they won't score as often.
Also lets not forget about the FPO field. Back in the day on those pitch and putt courses, you would have Korver or Jenkins putter go hot and they would birdie all those short holes. It didn't matter how much farther Climo could throw when all the holes were 340 feet or less, sometimes if they went hot he'd only beat them by a stroke or two, thus a 960 rated Jenkins, again, would drag the entire MPO field ratings down with her. Again this does not happen anymore since they lengthened the courses and removed the entire FPO field from the propagators.
Lengthening the courses up and removing both the AM and FPO fields made ratings drift a reality, hence the drift we have seen from the MPO field in the last decade, more precisely in the last 5 years. Do you think it's a coincidence that the current ratings drift has happened precisely as soon as they lengthened the courses/removed the FPO and AM fields from the propagators?
The ratings were quite static prior to this. I suspect one of the reasons for this is because the system was designed (accurately it should be noted) around the idea that it is to be used against entire fields of players and didn't take into account that one day decades into the future that the only propagators would be >1000 rated MPO players only (which is now the reality)
I'd like to note I am a fan of the ratings system and it is one of the unique things about our sport that separates us from other sports. I just don't buy into the idea that it is somehow infallible and doesn't have caveats that need to be taken into account (and possibly tweaked) as the sport changes.
So I hereby nominate you for the CFP committee. You believe your "eye test" is better than any concrete statistical formula.
Sheeeesh! smh
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If this doesn't just sum up Murica right now.
Get outta here with your "facts" and "stats". MY OPINION IS ALL THAT MATTERS!!!!!!
I don't know what method is best for determining the year that Wysocki played best. But, if given the choice of years to watch, I would choose 2016 over 2020.
Remember his playoff with Nate Sexton in the 2016 Minnesota Majestic. The 2016 Masters Cup, when he began the raptor legs thing. Dominant play at the Green Mountain Championships. Kansas City Wide Open, Steady Ed, St. Jude's, Beaver State Fling, Silver Cup, Estonian Open, European Masters, The National Tour, and a World Championship.
The dude was a force.
Remember his playoff with Nate Sexton in the 2016 Minnesota Majestic. The 2016 Masters Cup, when he began the raptor legs thing. Dominant play at the Green Mountain Championships. Kansas City Wide Open, Steady Ed, St. Jude's, Beaver State Fling, Silver Cup, Estonian Open, European Masters, The National Tour, and a World Championship.
The dude was a force.
I think playing better and winning can be 2 different things. You can certainly play better and increase your player rating without winning. Hence the discussion of ratings creep via the DGPT.
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DG_player has already established himself as one of these Ricky Bobby types.
joecoin
* Ace Member *
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Maybe everyone else played worse. You better look into it.
Have you considered that there is a larger pool of talent three years later?
Did McBeth win all of the events that Ricky didn't in 2020?
FTFY
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Although there were no entire courses that Ricky played in both 2017 and 202, there were 76 holes he played both years. Some for multiple rounds each year, giving us 208 data points.
On those holes he averaged 3.092 in 2017, and 3.059 in 2020.
Or, he played about one throw better for every 30 holes during 2020.
On those holes he averaged 3.092 in 2017, and 3.059 in 2020.
Or, he played about one throw better for every 30 holes during 2020.
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
Interestingly, shooting one throw better per 30 holes is 0.60 strokes better for 18 holes (18/30) and the 4 rating points he shot better (1050 vs 1054) is about 0.57 strokes (4/7) better since the long tournament courses he plays average around 7 rating points per stroke.
I stayed with his main distance driver. When you said "Force" and were only a couple letters off I thought you meant enforcer. He wasn't throwing the Saint of Giant back then.
But he did put a Dagger in the hearts of many.
