Stickers on discs, PDGA legal or not?

[ERicJ]

I had someone ask me the other day if they put a stickers on their discs to mark them would they be legal for PDGA sanctioned play.

What's your opinion?

I wasn't sure how to answer conclusively. I was inclined to say it would be illegal because the sticker is bound to have some detectable thickness and or weight; see rules below.

But Innova puts stickers on their discs all the time, many of the CFR discs come with them. The first run Makos I just got had stickers on them. I think every Quest disc I've seen comes from the factory with a sticker. Discraft used to use stickers to mark the weight of each disc before they recently transitioned to pen markings. Are players using those all carrying/throwing illegal discs?

Typically the stickers are easy to remove, but... in sanctioned play simply the act of carrying an illegal disc gets you two penalty strokes without warning (802.01 E).

Those price tag stickers that Play It Again Sports puts on their discs can be a pain to remove, especially from DX plastic.


PDGA Rule 802.01
C. Players may not make post-production modification of discs which alter their original flight characteristics. This rule does not forbid inevitable wear and tear from usage during play or the moderate sanding of discs to smooth molding imperfections or scrape marks. Discs excessively sanded or painted with a material of detectable thickness are illegal. See sections 802.01 D, E and F.

E. A player who carries an illegal disc during play shall receive two penalty throws, without a warning, if observed by two or more players of the group or an official. A player who repeatedly throws an illegal disc during the round may be subject to disqualification in accordance with 804.05 A (3).

F. All discs used in play, except mini marker discs, must be uniquely marked in ink or pigment-based marking which has no detectable thickness. A player shall receive a warning for the first instance of throwing an unmarked disc if observed by two or more players of the group or an official. After the warning has been given, each subsequent throw by the player with an unmarked disc shall incur one penalty throw if observed by two or more players of the group or an official.

and

PDGA Rule 802.01
B. The guidelines for golf discs are set forth in the PDGA Technical Standards Document. To be legal in PDGA competition, a disc must:

(6) be essentially as produced, without any post-production modifications which affect the weight or flight characteristics;

 

[rolo tony]

Not trying to be a jerk here, but it would probably be easier to just email PDGA than make a poll.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Stickers placed on the disc by the manufacturer are legal. They cannot currently be placed on the disc by players. A price tag placed on the disc by a retailer needs to be removed before sanctioned play.

 

[Conler Milrad]

Stickers placed on the disc by the manufacturer are legal. They cannot currently be placed on the disc by players. A price tag placed on the disc by a retailer needs to be removed before sanctioned play.

Tho you have all the proof in the topic.

 

[mambrose]

yea, some of my discraft has a sticker from them

 

[BrotherDave]

Goo gone works wonders for getting stickers off of DX plastic, just a little tip for you guys.

 

[80playedin10states]

hot water and soap does just fine.

 

[Vegan Ray]

Stickers placed on the disc by the manufacturer are legal. They cannot currently be placed on the disc by players. A price tag placed on the disc by a retailer needs to be removed before sanctioned play.

Please cite the relevant passages in the PDGA rules that led you to these opinions.

 

[CincyRocs]

PDGA Rule 802.01
C. Players may not make post-production modification of discs which alter their original flight characteristics. This rule does not forbid inevitable wear and tear from usage during play or the moderate sanding of discs to smooth molding imperfections or scrape marks. Discs excessively sanded or painted with a material of detectable thickness are illegal. See sections 802.01 D, E and F.

E. A player who carries an illegal disc during play shall receive two penalty throws, without a warning, if observed by two or more players of the group or an official. A player who repeatedly throws an illegal disc during the round may be subject to disqualification in accordance with 804.05 A (3).

I think the important part in there is the post-production modification. So stickers from companies are ok.

 

[biscoe]

as counter-intuitive as it is i believe chuck is correct. they hashed it out a few years back that manufacturers stickers were ok. i don't believe they should be, but that is the case.

i'm surprised quest didn't come out with some sort of giant weighted sticker just to screw with the pdga.

 

[Vegan Ray]

I know not about his correctness or lack of, but will if I can read the relevant rule(s) in a PDGA publication.

BTW - I thought that the Discraft nubby rubber grip stickers (I forget what they called them) were disallowed a few years ago.

 

[Vegan Ray]

Ultra-Grip, they called it. From '06:

 

[skinner21]

as counter-intuitive as it is i believe chuck is correct. they hashed it out a few years back that manufacturers stickers were ok. i don't believe they should be, but that is the case.

i'm surprised quest didn't come out with some sort of giant weighted sticker just to screw with the pdga.

I agree with him too. Technically, the process of marking a product for sale with stickers and packaging is still part of the manufacturing process, making the stickers left by the makers legal. Though when I answered to poll I hadn't read the thread yet and I misunderstood the question.

So would taking the stickers off constitute a port-production modification?

and I too am now waiting for Quest to come out some wierd ass packaging.

 

[Camgolfer]

The factory stickers are ok, its adding any post mfr. alterations that makes the disc illegal.

 

[billnchristy]

I guess I played with an illegal disc last weekend, my Rhyno has a stupid PIAS pricetag on it that is a bastard to get off. Guess I will get to scrapin!

 

[mmyersdisc]

I know not about his correctness or lack of, but will if I can read the relevant rule(s) in a PDGA publication.

BTW - I thought that the Discraft nubby rubber grip stickers (I forget what they called them) were disallowed a few years ago.

im pretty sure thats chuck kennedy the all knowing PDGA rule master...dunno if I would second guess him...lol

 

[Vegan Ray]

im pretty sure thats chuck kennedy the all knowing PDGA rule master...dunno if I would second guess him...lol

Tru dat. He is such a rules expert that he pontificates about many rules that aren't even on the PDGA's books (even some that are flat-out contradicted by rules that are on the PDGA's books). That's mastery!

 

[jeverett]

Alright, as no one has precisely mentioned the passage that makes adding stickers illegal, take a look at the full passage again:

PDGA Rule 802.01
C. Players may not make post-production modification of discs which alter their original flight characteristics.

The first possibility.. would said sticker alter the flight characteristics of the disc? If yes, it would be illegal based on 802.01 C. Unless it's a pretty big sticker, however, or one that contains metal (like an anti-theft sticker) it's pretty unlikely that the sticker would alter the flight characteristics. Also, as others mentioned, the manufacturer adding a sticker during production is legal, based on the specific wording of 802.01 C.

Discs excessively sanded or painted with a material of detectable thickness are illegal.

The second possibility.. stickers are of a detectable thickness, but are not 'painted' on, exactly. I would hazard that stickers were not the intent of that clause.

F. All discs used in play, except mini marker discs, must be uniquely marked in ink or pigment-based marking which has no detectable thickness.

The above clause describes the acceptable methods for 'uniquely marking' discs. Stickers would be illegal for the purpose of uniquely marking a disc.

To be legal in PDGA competition, a disc must:

(6) be essentially as produced, without any post-production modifications which affect the weight or flight characteristics;

Here it is, finally. While practically insignificant, stickers technically affect the weight of the disc. This does, interestingly, raise the question about removing the manufacturer stickers. That process would again technically affect the weight of the disc.

 

[billnchristy]

Here it is, finally. While practically insignificant, stickers technically affect the weight of the disc. This does, interestingly, raise the question about removing the manufacturer stickers. That process would again technically affect the weight of the disc.

Depends...when discraft put weight stickers on they obviously did so after weighing and besides with their cheesy range the sticker weight would be accounted for so if your disc is 167-169g then you could probably put 5 stickers on and not affect the advertised weight.

 

[jeverett]

Depends...when discraft put weight stickers on they obviously did so after weighing and besides with their cheesy range the sticker weight would be accounted for so if your disc is 167-169g then you could probably put 5 stickers on and not affect the advertised weight.

Yeah, I'd tend to agree with you on that point. The discs were definitely weighed before any manufacturer stickers were added, so removing them is probably keeping with the intent of the weight system itself, rather than intentionally trying to alter the weight of the disc.