Stickers on discs, PDGA legal or not?

[biscoe]

they are talking about your name or some other identifying mark.

 

[zenbot]

they are talking about your name or some other identifying mark.

So....does a custom dye job count?

What if it's from a company that makes multiple discs with the same dye?

 

[solomon.trenton]

im assuming your name has to be on the discs for tourneys. but i dont think they would really care at a c tier event.

 

[biscoe]

imo a custom dye would be acceptable- no 2 dyes are the exact same so i don't think the idea that a company does multiple IDENTICAL dyes holds water.

i can assure you that folks would care at a c tier event. the rules are the rules regardless of tier.

personally i can't see why anyone would not have their name/mark on their discs.

 

[Cgkdisc]

I fully expect the player disc marking rule to be updated in the next revision specifically requiring a unique mark on both sides of the disc.

 

[biscoe]

good, makes sense- it will help eliminate players playing from the wrong disc.

 

[CwAlbino]

I fully expect the player disc marking rule to be updated in the next revision specifically requiring a unique mark on both sides of the disc.

both sides? I really don't care to make my discs look like I was doodling with a permanent marker on them.

 

[Cgkdisc]

I'm assuming the rule will simply say a unique mark on both sides. It could be an ink dot strategically placed.

 

[Hellweg]

I hope the PDGA realizes how silly that restriction is and is working to remove that in the rewording of the rules.

How is that even enforcable? Will the approved discs spreadsheet now have a column for "MFG Sticker"? All discs of that model will be required to be produced with a sticker....?

So under this rule a player can purchase a brand new $25 CFR ZippyDisc with sticker and throw it in a 2" deep casual puddle on their first drive, the wet sticker falls off and the disc is now illegal for play?!?

That my friend would be wear and tear, which is legal.

 

[solomon.trenton]

I'm assuming the rule will simply say a unique mark on both sides. It could be an ink dot strategically placed.

why would you need a mark on both sides?

 

[Cgkdisc]

Not everyone can throw their disc so it always lands with just the one side that's marked facing up. Better to be safe and see the mark and know a disc is or is not yours without touching it. I suspect most of the problems that arise with players playing from the wrong disc occur because the owner of the disc had not been determined, usually because whatever mark was on it was not visible and the player did not check.

 

[ERicJ]

The requirement is for the manufacturers to attach "permanent" stickers if they use them. If they simply come off in water, the stickers would not comply.

So "non-permanent" (whatever that is) stickers can be legally removed by the player? And if the sticker can be removed by the player does that mean it wasn't "permanent"?

The reason they would have labels at all is the manufacturer chose labels to identify the disc model. This will be required with the standards so that players know what disc it is when custom hotstamps are appplied. Using disc model name initials with "permanent" ink like Innova is also an option if the manufacturer chooses to do it that way.

So does that also mean that mismarked discs are illegal for play?

E.g. say I have a first run star stamped Innova Mako (legal at 21.7cm diameter) but the pen ink initials on the bottom say "GT" and a Gator is only legal at 21.2cm diameter. Does that mean that in the PDGA's eyes this disc is considered an illegal Gator?

The Tech Standards group can't really say what the rules will be in the field regarding stickers disappearing. That will be up to the Rules Committee and have to be addressed in the next rules update.

Seems like the Tech Standards group needs to talk to the Rules Committee before they start implementing unenforcable standards.

Not everyone can throw their disc so it always lands with just the one side that's marked facing up. Better to be safe and see the mark and know a disc is or is not yours without touching it. I suspect most of the problems that arise with players playing from the wrong disc occur because the owner of the disc had not been determined, usually because whatever mark was on it was not visible and the player did not check.

Speaking from that two-stroke penalty experience, marking your disc on top as well is a good idea. At 2008 TxSDGC I played a hole where another player and I both (unbeknownst to us) threw red, Star TeeRexes with black stamps that landed within 30' of each other. Mine had actually gone further but you couldn't easily tell. So when we walked up to the discs I just assumed that the first one we'd gotten to was mine. I threw my next shot, bagged the disc and we walked up to the next guy out. He picks up that TeeRex and says "this isn't my disc", I got a sick feeling and pulled the red TeeRex out of my bag and turned it over to see his name on the bottom.

Ever since then I've been signing my name on the top of my discs as well as marking the underside.

 

[zenbot]

Ever since then I've been signing my name on the top of my discs as well as marking the underside.

I always sign the top of my disc. I get people asking constantly,

"Wow. Whose signature is that?"

"Mine."

"Oh."

 

[ERicJ]

I always sign the top of my disc. I get people asking constantly,

"Wow. Whose signature is that?"

"Mine."

"Oh."

Yep.

 

[skinner21]

I'm a little confused about a few things in this thread (imagine that. It's like a freaking courtroom in here) that could affect me in the future.

I have custom dyes on all my discs, and most are transparent enough that you can see the dye on the other side, so would that could as uniquely marked on both sides?

WTF are you guys talking about with manufactures' "permanent" stickers? And why would I have to put it back on? And I thought is was permanent. I hate stickers and remove them right when I buy a disc. Who puts these stickers on their discs? WHAT THE HELL IN GOING ON IN THIS THREAD?!?!

sorry, I'll stop yelling now.

 

[Innovadude]

So "non-permanent" (whatever that is) stickers can be legally removed by the player? And if the sticker can be removed by the player does that mean it wasn't "permanent"?




So does that also mean that mismarked discs are illegal for play?

E.g. say I have a first run star stamped Innova Mako (legal at 21.7cm diameter) but the pen ink initials on the bottom say "GT" and a Gator is only legal at 21.2cm diameter. Does that mean that in the PDGA's eyes this disc is considered an illegal Gator?




Seems like the Tech Standards group needs to talk to the Rules Committee before they start implementing unenforcable standards.




Speaking from that two-stroke penalty experience, marking your disc on top as well is a good idea. At 2008 TxSDGC I played a hole where another player and I both (unbeknownst to us) threw red, Star TeeRexes with black stamps that landed within 30' of each other. Mine had actually gone further but you couldn't easily tell. So when we walked up to the discs I just assumed that the first one we'd gotten to was mine. I threw my next shot, bagged the disc and we walked up to the next guy out. He picks up that TeeRex and says "this isn't my disc", I got a sick feeling and pulled the red TeeRex out of my bag and turned it over to see his name on the bottom.

Ever since then I've been signing my name on the top of my discs as well as marking the underside.

Sort of the same happened to me about 8 years ago. White KC Eagles, blue stamps. Except, it was a blind hole, and the spotter for the tournament told us which shot was where, and they weren't that close, and they seemed to be the right discs for our shots, neither of us knew we had thrown the same disc. The spotter was wrong, but it didn't matter. Stroke. I put my initials on top.

 

[Cgkdisc]

I think we need to separate the two functions of the TSC (Tech Standards Committee) and the RC (Rules Committee). The job of the TSC is to work with manufacturers on disc shape, physical characteristics and identification so that when a player gets a disc to be used for competition they can determine what model it is, and either directly by looking at the disc or looking it up online, determine that it is PDGA Approved. The proposed standards do that in a way that the manufacturers can handle. That was not true with the current specs.

The Rules Committee has to deal with issues that arise when discs get to the event before being used, and if their characteristics change during play such that they are not legal any more. If the retailer, custom dyer or player does something to a disc after receiving a properly manufactured disc, an official needs to be able to determine the disc model to confirm approval (whether they do it or not). The rules do a pretty good job defining when a disc becomes unusable during competition.

The crux of this whole issue is maintaining disc identification throughout its life. The manufacturer will be required to make sure it gets to the customer/retailer with proper ID. If anyone modifies the disc after that point such as removing "permanent" stickers, hotstamps and/or adding dye, as long as they retain or replace the disc model ID on it, that would be acceptable.

For instance, if a sticker on the bottom of the disc says this is the Zacto by Acme and someone does a custom dye job that ruins or removes the sticker, it's the dyer's responsibility to identify the disc properly on the top or bottom before sale or use by using one of the acceptable ways manufacturers can mark them (other than applying an unofficial sticker). The easiest would be to simply write Zacto on the bottom. It would not be necessary to contact the manufacturer and get an exact replacement sticker. If the word Zacto happened to be embedded in the dye graphics, that would also be OK.

That's how I see it ending up anyway. But some of these steps are just proceeding thru approvals so some of the details might still change.

 

[ThePatrick]

Speaking from that two-stroke penalty experience, marking your disc on top as well is a good idea. At 2008 TxSDGC I played a hole where another player and I both (unbeknownst to us) threw red, Star TeeRexes with black stamps that landed within 30' of each other. Mine had actually gone further but you couldn't easily tell. So when we walked up to the discs I just assumed that the first one we'd gotten to was mine. I threw my next shot, bagged the disc and we walked up to the next guy out. He picks up that TeeRex and says "this isn't my disc", I got a sick feeling and pulled the red TeeRex out of my bag and turned it over to see his name on the bottom.

Ever since then I've been signing my name on the top of my discs as well as marking the underside.

Ha ha.... I was there. That was almost a good as the time you worked on the course maps, then played the wrong hole. What's TX states got in store for you this year?