Stuck in a bush what's the rule?

[CourseMaintenance]

I would consider any instance where it is physically impossible to make legal contact with the lie to logically follow the solid object rule.

Right. It's the same thing if you somehow manage to land on the front side of a trash can.

If you're just in a bush, you can almost certainly play it from there.

 

[ToddL]

Relevant rule is 805.01 Establishing a Position.

If the disc is suspended above the ground, whether in a tree or a low bush, you mark on the ground directly below the disc and play from there. Not where it ends up after you knock it down.

In a low bush, you mark the lie underneath the disc and you do your best to take a stance on that lie that does the least to disrupt or damage the bush. In other words, don't break branches and don't hold them out of your way, but take a stance that puts a supporting point (foot, knee, hand, etc) on the lie.

If you don't want to play from in/under the bush, you can relocate the lie with a penalty. It is not "out of bounds" however. It is either optional relief (line of play relief with penalty) or abandoned throw (re-throw from previous lie with penalty).

Everything you need to know is in this post right here. 100% correct and 100% complete. Anything beyond this is some sort of truly extenuating circumstance.

 

[ru4por]

If its in a tree you play the lie directly underneath it. With a penalty if the 2 meter rule is in effect. Wait until after your throw to get it out. Knocking it out of the tree is a penalty.

You don't have to wait until you throw. Heck, you may want to throw that misbehaving disc on the recovery shot. You have to mark the disc in the tree. You may remove the disc after marking.

NVM....should have read a bunch of posts before responding.

 

[CourseMaintenance]

Right. But it isn't the act of knocking the disc out that would draw a penalty, which was the implication in your post (whether that was your intent or not, that's how it read). Any penalty associated with what the OP described would come from playing from where that disc ended up after it was knocked out.

I'm talking in big picture layman terms to an obvious new player. If you guys wanna rip me to shreds over semantics and give him a buncha legal jargon that he's not gonna understand or remember go for it.

 

[JC17393]

I'm talking in big picture layman terms to an obvious new player. If you guys wanna rip me to shreds over semantics and give him a buncha legal jargon that he's not gonna understand or remember go for it.

I'm not "ripping you to shreds" but I will argue over semantics, particularly when the poor semantics can lead to incorrect understanding of what is legal.

When it comes to the rules, I find there are two constants in the game...1) most players learn the rules from other players (as opposed to consulting the rule book directly) and 2) most players have an insufficient understanding of even the most basic rules of the game. The latter is certainly the result of the former, as the oral tradition of passing along the rules inevitably leads to a "game of telephone" treatment of the rules where words and intents get changed the further from the source (the rule book) they get.

So even when dealing with a clearly new and eager to learn player, clear and precise language is incredibly important for giving them a solid base understanding of the rules.

 

[Steve West]

There is one reason you could get "penalized" for knocking it out of the tree too soon. ONLY if the two-meter rule is in effect, and ONLY if the disc may or may not be above two meters:

Official Rules of Disc Golf
805.02 Disc Above Two Meters
Last updated: Saturday, March 3, 2018 - 09:43
…
D. If the thrower moves the disc before a determination has been made, the disc is considered to have come to rest above two meters.

 

[CourseMaintenance]

I'm not "ripping you to shreds" but I will argue over semantics, particularly when the poor semantics can lead to incorrect understanding of what is legal.

When it comes to the rules, I find there are two constants in the game...1) most players learn the rules from other players (as opposed to consulting the rule book directly) and 2) most players have an insufficient understanding of even the most basic rules of the game. The latter is certainly the result of the former, as the oral tradition of passing along the rules inevitably leads to a "game of telephone" treatment of the rules where words and intents get changed the further from the source (the rule book) they get.

So even when dealing with a clearly new and eager to learn player, clear and precise language is incredibly important for giving them a solid base understanding of the rules.

Duly noted. I'll be more specific next time.
I just didn't think I was necessary to throw half of the rule book at a guy that thought he was OB because he was in a bush.

 

[Docxen]

The guy said he was gonna knock it out of the tree and call that the lie. That's what I was saying not to do.

i get ya the lie would be directly under the disc in the tree?

 

[Docxen]

If you're a disc golfer, you don't need tattoos. I call it ritual scarification.

that and all the cuts/bites/etc on your legs ...it's how we know each other lol

 

[CourseMaintenance]

i get ya the lie would be directly under the disc in the tree?

Right on man. Unless directly under the tree was a rock or stump or something solid. Then you'd play the lie right behind that.

Familiarize yourself with the rulebook and keep one in your bag for if you're ever uncertain.

It's really not as complicated as these guys make it sound. They seem kinda OCD.

prolly got 12 different innova rocs in their bag

 

[CourseMaintenance]

Right on man. Unless directly under the tree was a rock or stump or something solid. Then you'd play the lie right behind that.

Familiarize yourself with the rulebook and keep one in your bag for if you're ever uncertain.

It's really not as complicated as these guys make it sound. They seem kinda OCD.

prolly got 12 different innova rocs in their bag

A big rock that prevented you from taking a stance. Obviously not a pebble.

Just wanted to clarify that before I get crucified again

 

[ru4por]

Duly noted. I'll be more specific next time.
I just didn't think I was necessary to throw half of the rule book at a guy that thought he was OB because he was in a bush.

Well....the rule book is the definitive authority on rules questions. I respectfully would disagree with the above. I think to do anything but, "throw half of the rule book" at a rules questions is doing a disservice to the question and causes nothing but more ambiguity.

 

[teemkey]

Well....the rule book is the definitive authority on rules questions. I respectfully would disagree with the above. I think to do anything but, "throw half of the rule book" at a rules questions is doing a disservice to the question and causes nothing but more ambiguity.

And you can download it for free.

 

[joecoin]

Relevant rule is 805.01 Establishing a Position.

... take a stance that puts a supporting point (foot, knee, hand, etc) on the lie.

...

So, you can use your hand as a supporting point? Other parts of your body also?

 

[JC17393]

So, you can use your hand as a supporting point? Other parts of your body also?

Of course you can. Definition right from 802.04.B: A supporting point is any part of the player's body that is, at the time of release, in contact with the playing surface or any other object that provides support.

You can stand on your head on your lie if you feel it's the most advantageous way to make your throw.

 

[joecoin]

Of course you can. Definition right from 802.04.B: A supporting point is any part of the player's body that is, at the time of release, in contact with the playing surface or any other object that provides support.

You can stand on your head on your lie if you feel it's the most advantageous way to make your throw.

Learn something new everyday, I only play casual. I'm gonna try a headstand next round. :thmbup:

 

[IHearChains]

The hand as supporting point is really helpful sometimes, like if your disc is stuck halfway up a high steep creekbank. If you place your hand as a supporting point behind your disc, sometimes you can take advantage of a comfortable easy stance in the creek bottom. Any contact with the ground counts, you don't actually have to have measurable weight on your hand.

 

[d11rok]

There are some courses that have very fragile or decorative bushes, and the course was there afterwards. In these scenarios, to not damage the bush should take precedent over getting the lie just right according to the rules, as has been well described. These scenarios should be brought forward by the TD beforehand, however, and the stance would be behind the bush without penalty

But if it's the normal bush that is growing wild, I agree with the stance needing to be taken where the disc landed

 

[ToddL]

So, you can use your hand as a supporting point? Other parts of your body also?

I'd change the emphasis/phrasing of this sentence. It's not whether you choose to use your hand as a supporting point; it's that any part of your body that's touching the ground is by definition a supporting point.

You can choose to put your hand or knee or butt or chest or head on the lie/behind your marker, but you should also be aware that any part of your body at all that's touching the ground can and will be interpreted as a supporting point. This comes up sometimes during foot fault conversations: "Sure maybe my toe was touching the ground in front of my lie, but I didn't have much weight on it, so it's not actually a supporting point. Therefore, no foot fault." Nope, it's a supporting point, even if it's only holding 1 pound of your body weight.