SuperWookie Form Thread

[SuperWookie]

Yes, I am a perfectionist in certain things, haha. It's extremely frustrating finding out that not only is there no easy way to find discs that you KNOW will go certain distances relative to your swing speed/distance, but that ALL the discs come out different! Flat top, semi flat, slight domey, domey, stiffer, more flexible, etc. And ALLL from the same mold and plastic! That's pathetic. Can you imagine if this was the case in golf or any other sport. People would be revolting and demanding this be fixed immediately. But it sounds like this is the norm in disc golf and everyone just has to buy a thousand discs and figure out which ones you like. I guess I need to realize all this about disc golf quickly and stop worrying about it. Just play the discs I have and add some here and there for shots I don't have already. Doesn't make any sense, but oh well, get used to it? Right?

I guess, what I'm really looking for now (since my bag is pretty much full), is 1-2 approach discs that just drop dead at a certain distance, and then 1-2 really good Forehand discs. I have a Berg I just got in the mail today for short approaches, now I need to find a mid that does the same, and possibly a fw or control driver speed disc that also throws like a lawn dart. So any suggestions there is appreciated. Something I can throw around 250' and it just drops like a dart. Then same thing for around 300'. Just for reference, with where I'm at distance wise. My mids go around 280-300 and my fw/control drivers go around 310-350 depending on the glide and disc.

Same for forehand. I NEVER throw FH on a course, as I can't for some weird reason. Every single FH I throw when I practice, wobbles out horribly and crashes right hard! I've had a few decent throws that go around 250-275 and somewhat where I aimed, but are so wobbly and just not flat at all! Some almost look like I was trying to throw a spike hyzer bomb or thumber they go so hard right and straight down into the ground. I have no idea how my FH is so bad. I can throw and do all other sports really well, so it's strange that my FH isn't good right away. I'm practicing here and there to get better at it.

But I think I already have 1 amazing FH disc in my bag, that I just found out is incredible for FH's. The Leo Piironen FD2 Royal Rage. And after picking it up to feel it out for a FH, I have to agree, it feels amazing for FH. So thin, so perfectly flat on top, and has that nice smooth straight sloping wing, no weird shapes. And is very smooth on all parts of the wing and rim. So then all I need is a speed 10 or 11 long distance FH disc that is VERY much like my FD2 as far as feel goes, but just for longer shots. Something that goes pretty straight, won't turn much left, and has a soft fade right. Something like a DD or PD maybe? I just found out yesterday that something that has a more flat shape on the wing is really good for FH, as well as being thinner overall and a flat top? Plus super stable plastic. So maybe a C line DD or PD? Or even an Axiom or MVP disc? It will also double as my only OS driving disc as well. Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks for the info!

 

[slowplastic]

Arrrgggghhhhh, so frustrating. I just want discs that go different distances just like golf. I don't want to have to sort through hundreds of discs over my lifetime trying to find the perfect disc for every shot. I just want to know how far certain discs will go based on throwing around 400' max distance. I feel like it should be much easier to get that info and know aproximately how far discs go, if you know how far someone can throw.

I'll give you a rundown for myself, seeing as I throw that 400' golf line distance generally.

If I say a disc is stable I mean straight/neutral. If I say a disc is stable-OS that means neutral to fade, think like a Teebird. If I say OS then I mean truly beefy like a Firebird, the low-glide OS disc class. All discs are thrown flat if neutral and hyzer flip if they turn. Flex lines would be longer but there are more variables, so distances for stable-OS and OS could be longer on different lines.

Putters - US/stable/and stable-OS all go same distance, and that is 280'ish easy/300' harder

Putter-mid OS hybrid like a Zone/Harp - 275'ish

Mids - US/stable 330ish, stable-OS 320'ish. Pure OS like a Gator I don't know, likely well under 300' but it's been a while.

Fairways - US/stable/stable-OS - 350' easy 370' hard
OS with glide like a Thunderbird is 330' up to 350' hard.
True OS like Firebird is 300-320'. Some very OS FAF Firebirds are significantly shorter. So this is with my mids in distance.

Distance drivers - US/Stable/stable-OS 375-400+
True OS is 330-350'.

So you can see if I want to throw a pure hyzer at 330' through wind I need an OS distance driver. But if I want to throw a sweep hyzer in calm that glides as far left as possible at 330' I might throw a more neutral or stable-OS fairway, since it will stay afloat and get more left.

Different speed classes have different characteristics in wind and on the ground, but then when you go too OS you lose distance and the disc can lose a distance class or even more.

If you're looking to try out something in that OS utility range, then something like an FD3 is a good start. It's not as unmanageable as a Firebird but is still OS to skip and handle all wind. Fast enough to cut through wind and handle overhand shots, do skips and FH rollers, but not so beefy it'll fade out of your hand if you try to power it down. The PD is a fantastic FH laser disc, but can be quite power hungry for BH shots. Called the power driver for a reason.

 

[UhhNegative]

Yes, I am a perfectionist in certain things, haha. It's extremely frustrating finding out that not only is there no easy way to find discs that you KNOW will go certain distances relative to your swing speed/distance, but that ALL the discs come out different! Flat top, semi flat, slight domey, domey, stiffer, more flexible, etc. And ALLL from the same mold and plastic! That's pathetic. Can you imagine if this was the case in golf or any other sport. People would be revolting and demanding this be fixed immediately. But it sounds like this is the norm in disc golf and everyone just has to buy a thousand discs and figure out which ones you like. I guess I need to realize all this about disc golf quickly and stop worrying about it. Just play the discs I have and add some here and there for shots I don't have already. Doesn't make any sense, but oh well, get used to it? Right?

But ball golf lines are boring. Yeah they can do a little shot shaping here and there, but nothing like a hyzer flip to turn to fade. It's probably not possible to fix as long as the discs are made out of plastic. There's not specific distances because discs fly a lot differently than golf balls. In ball golf you are essentially hitting a "hyzer" every time because you can hit it high and drop it consistently where you want. Hyzers are the easiest to range in disc golf because they fly predictably. But as soon as you get straighter shots and disc flip and anhyzer, it's much harder to range and has to just be learned by feel. And truly you should do the opposite of everyone, buy LESS discs and learn the ones you have. I'd take 3 discs I intimately know the flight of over 20 discs covering every stability that I've never thrown before.

 

[SuperWookie]

Thanks guys! That helps more. I think the more I look at all my discs, I already have more than I need. Maybe an FD3 or something like that MIGHT be needed. But I think I'll just play what I have and learn them well. And obviously work on throwing better. Went out yesterday and we had amazing weather! 75, cool breeze and sun. But I wasn't throwing that well for some reason. Timing felt a little wonky. Still, it's nice that I can go out now and throw and know what 60-75% of my throws will do. Getting less and less really horrible throws or really bad pulls. So that's good.

REALLY loving my new mids I picked up recently. Got a C line glow MD3 and an S line and they just BOMB for a mid! I can throw those things on a super repeatable slight hyzer line 270-300 ever single time now! Like almost never miss that throw! It's really fun. They are becoming my GO TO discs for almost any medium or longer throw. Also picked up a Moonshine Compass and it too is amazing! It fits perfect between my extremely neutral Star Mako3 and my more stable MD3's. It's very straight with a slight fade at the end every time. Haven't had it turn on me yet. So my mids are quickly becoming my favorite discs. I've got all the bases covered there.

And continue to LOVE my S line FD's! Just about my most comfortable discs in my bag. It's either dead straight or 5' of turn, with a super reliable tiny fade or medium fade at the end depending on the angle. Not liking my Royal Rage FD2 much yet. It's super overstable and low glide. I think I've only thrown that thing well a handful of throws. It goes low and left every time and just feels odd in my hand. Although I'm starting to practice FH's and it feels the best for that.

Also, just picked up a Neutron Ion, and that thing is putter driving city! So straight with a reliable tiny fade at the end. Almost as long as my mids!!!

As far as my form goes, I feel like I'm stuck again and not really improving. Had that nice big jump over the last few weeks that culminated in much longer throws, but now, the last few times I've gone out, it's the exact same results, NO increase in distance at all. I still feel like I'm missing some secret technique that isn't allowing me to really sling the disc. I still feel like I'm sort of strong arming it. And on throws where I really let the disc come in late to my chest before I try to fling it out, those throws are even worse. They seem like they might have more spin, but they kind of just float out there and then fall down. They're not very penetrating flights and the distance is quite a bit lower. Which is weird, because it feels like I'm doing more what I should be doing, but the results are worse.

I've had some great success by adding the X step hammer throw walk into my throw (just like SW's video). It cleaned things up a lot and added some much needed timing and balance. But now, it feels like in order to throw farther, I need more than that? I didn't film myself the last two times because nothing changed and I just didn't feel great throwing. But I'll try to get some more video up soon.

 

[UhhNegative]

I mean it takes years of practice to truly develop distance. It's very rare for someone to just come out of the gates throwing 500'.

One thing to try is trying to hold on to the disc tighter at release and see what that does for you. Whenever I think "ok grip the f%#$ out of this thing right at the end", I get a lot higher speed ejections. Like just clamp the ever living **** out of it. If your timing/positioning is wrong it will probably go way right, but if you properly setup the disc has no choice but to go where your body is aiming. Of course proper body positioning and timing is king, but if you can't effectively transfer all that energy to the disc (through the grip; ejection; hit point) then you are basically wasting power. Could just be something I struggle with though as I have small hands and relatively weak grip.

 

[slowplastic]

Those are some good discs. I bag the Ion and Compass as that stable-OS putter and mid slot. Both have typical glide and amazing consistency. I also bag the FD as a stable/neutral but glidey fairway. I think the Mako3 and MD3 are both very good too but I don't own them. All of those are great for field work as you can throw them on any line.

 

[SuperWookie]

Those are some good discs. I bag the Ion and Compass as that stable-OS putter and mid slot. Both have typical glide and amazing consistency. I also bag the FD as a stable/neutral but glidey fairway. I think the Mako3 and MD3 are both very good too but I don't own them. All of those are great for field work as you can throw them on any line.

Thanks! Yeah, I have 4 total FD's that I bought for fieldwork months ago! They're my favorite disc to throw. Although those two MD3's are quickly catching up. Same with the Compass. I really like how heavy all 3 of those are and how they're a little larger than all the other discs! I really can feel the weight of them and it just helps me to whip them more. I can really huck that glow MD3 sometimes really far for a mid. Like it thinks it's a FW sometimes, haha!

I recently realized I need to get my mid game going, now that I'm actually playing more often on a course. I'm realizing that is where most of your shots come from. Plus all the approach shots. So I realized a few weeks ago, I needed to fill out my bag with more mids for practice and just to have different flight paths for those shots. So It's really helped me a lot having the choice of Mids to throw for different shots and holes! I used to just throw that Star Mako3, but it's so twitchy. I used to love it for field throwing, as I can really get a long throw out of it, and it turns a little before it comes back. But on the course, it's a little harder to trust since it goes wherever you throw it. It can go dead straight with the softest barely there fade. Or it can turn a little too much right if I throw it too hard or get even the slightest anhyzer angle on it.

Those MD3's and the Compass have given me 3 new mids to chose from that are so reliable and that I trust. And I'm starting to realize how important shaping shots is, over being able to just throw straight. I mean, I still want to learn how to throw straight really well, but at the same time, practicing hyzer throws of varrying angle is helping me get around trees on the course and throw the disc more like a dart, instead of it gliding or skipping way past where I wanted. Any hole in the 260-310 range, I just pull out the MD3 and rip on it with a hyzer and I'm near the basket pretty often. I think watching pros play a LOT more often now helps me see how important it is as well! I rarely watched pros play before the last week or so. I was only watching certain players, and just their drives. But now, every night before I go to bed, I watch a 9 hole segment of pros playing and it is amazing how few times they need or actually play a straight shot. It's usually only for easy approaches or certain drives. So that has helped me to realize throwing straight isn't as important as I thought it was, and how helpful a good hyzer shot can be!

I was going to ask you another disc suggestion question (or anyone that wants to chime in). If I'm looking for two discs that have a slight left to right turn the whole way for a Mid and a FW, what would you suggest? I have a Gold Line Fuse and a Gold Line Maul, but those now both turn SO hard on me, even on 75% power. They are useful for certain SUPER shots, but overall, they just turn so much, I can't trust them. If I throw them on a rope about 80% power and a little left, they turn almost immediately and never come back! The Maul can end up like 50-80' right of where I was aiming it. Mostly because of it's insane glide. It just never stops gliding, even when it appears to be done. The Fuse does the same, just not as far. Which is good for certain holes, but overall, they both turn too much to trust. And since I'm no where near being able to throw an Anhyzer yet, or very consistently, I'm looking for a mid and a speed 7-9 that can fill that role.

I was thinking maybe a Prodigy F5, or a Lat 64 Jade or River in Opto or Opto X? Or an MVP Amp or Switch in Neutron? Something along that line in a harder plastic, so it doesn't get too flippy or turn too much. Does switching from the exact same disc to it's harder plastic counterpart take off enough turn to make a noticeable difference? Make it so it doesn't turn so hard and for so long? Something that goes straight or barely turns, and then holds that line right. But doesn't go WAY right. Just like a soft 10-20'. Have you ever come across any mids or FW's like that? That is a disc I don't have right now and could REALLY use for those dog leg right holes, since I can't throw a good FH yet, nor can I anhyzer throw. Thanks

 

[SuperWookie]

There is always better.

Flat and straight do not exist if you want to throw far efficiently. Nothing in the universe or nature moves straight or flat.

I wouldn't be content with your grip until you are throwing big d.

And back to my throwing, here is some photos of my grips that SW asked for

Power Grip

Power Grip

Normal thumb position for most shots

My modified fan grip I use for 300ish or less shots. Index and pinky in the rim, middle fingers on the plate

 

[slowplastic]

I've never thrown a Maul, but the Fuse can be pretty understable but also pretty nice. It feels good in hand and has a ton of glide. Before recommending more discs, try the Fuse on a hyzer release to throw a hyzer flip turnover shot.

Basically it's nice to have a disc that turns over every single time without any doubt. It is the worst if a disc is usually straight but if you hit it slightly too hard or there's some minor wind it'll turn. If a disc turns over and never comes back but in a way that it doesn't cut roll on you, like flip so hard and land on its right edge and roll, then it's not too understable. What you can do is take advantage of its flippiness by releasing on mild to moderate hyzer. During the first part of its flight it'll flip up to flat, all while going straight. Then it'll have a little more turn and once the right wing is down it'll finally start drifting to the right, but it might be halfway through its flight before this happens. Then if it doesn't have any fade on it, it'll just keep drifting slightly right for the rest of its flight and land pretty flat.

So you can control how far right a disc that's moderately to quite understable goes by how much hyzer you start it with. It takes a while to learn this shot, it's an advanced line, but it lets you throw so very interesting lines without any fade and really control the disc's entire flight.

 

[SuperWookie]

I've never thrown a Maul, but the Fuse can be pretty understable but also pretty nice. It feels good in hand and has a ton of glide. Before recommending more discs, try the Fuse on a hyzer release to throw a hyzer flip turnover shot.

Basically it's nice to have a disc that turns over every single time without any doubt. It is the worst if a disc is usually straight but if you hit it slightly too hard or there's some minor wind it'll turn. If a disc turns over and never comes back but in a way that it doesn't cut roll on you, like flip so hard and land on its right edge and roll, then it's not too understable. What you can do is take advantage of its flippiness by releasing on mild to moderate hyzer. During the first part of its flight it'll flip up to flat, all while going straight. Then it'll have a little more turn and once the right wing is down it'll finally start drifting to the right, but it might be halfway through its flight before this happens. Then if it doesn't have any fade on it, it'll just keep drifting slightly right for the rest of its flight and land pretty flat.

So you can control how far right a disc that's moderately to quite understable goes by how much hyzer you start it with. It takes a while to learn this shot, it's an advanced line, but it lets you throw so very interesting lines without any fade and really control the disc's entire flight.

Oh wow! That is so cool! I had no idea it would do that! I'll have to try that with my Maul and Fuse during field work and see if it does that. Throw it on a slight hyzer and a little left. But so far, no matter how I throw it or the Fuse, they just go right almost immediately on a huge sweeping anhyzer and never come back at all! The maul can sometimes go 350 without even trying that hard to throw it far, and a whole football field width or farther right!!! It's kind of crazy. I literally used to throw that thing dead straight, but over the last month or so (because my disc speed is moving up), I can't keep it straight to save my life! I threw one Friday when I was out practicing 350ish and in the trees about 20' right of the edge of the sidelines at the football field! It was INSANE how far right it went, and just gliding the whole way left to right. It was kind of cool to see what I can do with it.

So I definitely need to try that hyzer flip throw and see how it reacts. I'm just worried that if I tried that on a course, I'd bungle it all up, as I play WAY worse on the course than in the field. I'm actually getting pretty decent in the field, but on the course, it's usually pretty bad. I just fall into all my old bad habits within 5 holes or so and start strong arming everything and pulling right. No matter how hard I try to just take it easy and think about my good habits I have been forming. I used to be that way with golf as well. I was basically a par shooter on the driving range. I would have shot around par I could hit so well. But put me on the course and it all fell apart. It wasn't until way later that I got comfortable on the course and played well. Hope that happens sometime soon with Disc.

Thanks for the tip! And if you or anyone has any recommendations for a disc like I was asking about, that would be really helpful. Thanks

 

[Tepi]

I fell in love with esp buzzz ss's, feels like slightly stabler midrange version of nova (no fade basically), great for anhyzers that need to keep the angle till the end and for hyzer shots that flip up flat and stay straight till the end. Also bag mcbeth esp buzzz's, which can handle headwinds really well also, like that those both feel pretty much the same in hand.

For stable midrange I got hybrid justice, probably most overstable midrange I've ever thrown. I bought it to serve as utility disc and specially for those short S-shaped fairways where only option is to throw forehand in heavy anhyzer angle with a disc that can fight out of it and fade back right. Love it for backhand aswell whenever I feel like the shot has to get steeply to left at the end.

 

[slowplastic]

Thanks for the tip! And if you or anyone has any recommendations for a disc like I was asking about, that would be really helpful. Thanks

For mids it seems like you are finding your Mako3 is very straight or will turn slightly, but the Fuse may be too US. I would keep working on both of those to see if you can adjust your angle and they work better, both of those are very good discs.

Between both of those, the Core and Claymore are very similar to the Fuse but more stable...similar speed and glide though. However they may not hold a turn all the way to the ground unless thrown hard. The BuzzzSS is like the Mako3 in characteristics but maybe a bit less stable. These are hard to recommend blindly for this specific slot as all discs are slightly different and this slot is very dependent on a thrower's arm speed, spin, and nose down. It's an advanced shot.

The Comet is my go to turnover mid. Flatter Comets are less stable. They feel like an old school mid in hand, I don't like how they feel but they fly amazing. They are more like a putter in how they like to be thrown, but at midrange diameter and distances. It takes time to learn the Comet but they will hold turnovers to the ground.

Basically keep in mind you can't just buy a new stable-US disc and expect to know how to throw it within the first couple throws, they take learning with respect to your own throwing capabilities and arm speed. I like the Comet because it can be thrown high without stalling out, so it can be thrown on very high annies and turnover lines. It doesn't like low line drives as much as the Fuse but if you can throw hard and clean it will still carry farther/easier than putters on low lines.

For fairways if you like the FD, then the Leopard or Leo3 has a bit less fade when they are beat in. Very similar family of disc. Some premium like champ/star can be more stable than you want initially. If I were to recommend blindly I would say try a Gstar Leo3 as it should turnover more and fade less than your FD's. The FD is more -1/1 to me, like it wants to drift right and drift back to middle. A Leo that has had the fade beat out of it, or that starts on the less stable end of the spectrum, will turn more than the FD and hold that direction to the right for longer. Even though it's a narrower rim slightly and called a speed 6, I have no issue throwing them as far as any other fairway driver.

The Sidewinder is also amazing but definitely a longer disc than most/all fairway drivers. Can try that in Gstar or Star. When the fade is beat out of them they will fly turnover lines at any height as long as you can throw nose down.

 

[SuperWookie]

So I'm not even going to post video from last night's practice, it was horrible. I'm totally regressing all of a sudden now. I had that break through a few weeks ago, then pretty much every practice since, my form and throwing results have gotten steadily worse. I feel like the balance is the only thing I am continually getting slightly better at each time. Timing is always iffy or horrible and I just hardly ever feel like my lower body movements pair up with the distance I see. With how much weight and energy is moving forward, the transfer of power/energy to the disc is being lost and it feels awkward. Throwing a lot of yank pulls again and 20-40' shorter than normal throws that go straight and then hyzer out. Doesn't matter if I stand still, do the X hammer pendulum or an actual X step. All of them result in horrible or subpar throws and all of them just feel like so much energy is not being transferred to the disc. When I was playing golf, I could put in like 60-80% power and get almost 100% of my max distance. It was effortless. I'm just not finding that secret sauce that I had in golf with Disc throwing and it just feels like too many things are "possibly" to blame. In golf, it was one thing that was holding me back. So this is crazy frustrating annoying.

So some things I've been thinking about how to do, or how to do better, or just thinking about lately are the following:

1. Am I swinging my upper body and arm too fast too early in the swing? I go back and read certain posts/emails/and blog entries from HUB, and I just constantly see the message of SLOW DOWN. And then SLOW DOWN EVEN MORE. Which I understand and don't at the same time. If you watch any good player, they're not going slow. Unless it's a shorter touch shot. They may be smooth, but they definitely are going medium speed in the back swing and then FULL OUT on the throw. But I'm just wondering, should it be much slower than you think all the way until the disc is around your chest area? Or before that?

A few examples would be golf or tennis. In golf, in order to hit a controllable/repeatable long shot, the timing is as follows: slow in the back swing, medium in the initial downswing, and then near the hip or just lower, the swing and momentum starts to really ramp up and achieve maximum club head speed just before you hit the ball and right through the ball. Exact same for tennis backhand. I'd set my body up for the angle, come in closed to the ball with a slow back swing, then as I start swinging the racket forward it picks up speed and is going medium speed, then all that body momentum and forward energy from the racket really ramps up right before the ball and explodes through.

Is that what I want to be trying to accomplish with a disc golf throw? Because when I read go super slow, I have no idea how I'm supposed to get such high disc speed if I'm going so slow for most of the swing. Especially when I read about keeping slow UNTIL you get to the middle of your chest. That's almost at the actual hit/release point by then. So how can you be going so slow and then instantly so fast? There needs to be some other part of the throw where your arm/shoulders/torso gains a good amount of speed before that in order to get a ramping up effect of energy being transferred to the disc. So I'm having a hard time connecting this feeling to a disc, but NO problem with a tennis racket or golf club.

2. I'm still having trouble figuring out the timing and where the weight transfers take place to utilize your forward movement and how to efficiently transfer it to the arm so that the disc feels heavy. In tennis, golf, baseball, it was crazy easy to get past the beginner stage and into the intermediate and then lower advanced phases. The beginning and then the final polishing were the hardest parts of "learning" the swings. But in disc golf, i feel that ALL of it is hard, and all of it is going to take forever because the disc weighs nothing and we are not using a racket or club. So I'm trying to figure out when and where the weight transfer should be at certain parts of the throw in order to FEEL the heaviness of the disc/arm, because I can't right now. No matter how I do things, it just doesn't feel efficient.

I watch Simon, Paul, Seppo, Eagle, etc, and I can SEE how at certain points in each of their throws, where the disc gets heavy and how they can so efficiently SLING it out with little effort. But I try to do it, and it's pathetic. I just can't figure out HOW to do that in my own swing. Meaning, I always feel like my weight transfer moving forward is not syncing up with the arm coming through to produce that heavy powerful smash I feel in golf, tennis, baseball. My weight transfer and arm are not in time, and I don't feel my weight transfer has ANY effect on slinging the disc farther. So in golf/tennis/baseball, I can FEEL when my club/racket is heavy, and when it's not. And I can manipulate that to hit the ball really far with less effort. But that is because it's so easy to feel how to transfer my weight from back foot to front foot and at the right moment. It's literally second nature/mindless. The only hard thing was to learn about the lag and then how to do it. But even then, it only took a few weeks! But no matter what I practice with the Disc, it feels off all the time. I can throw basically as far standing still as I can with the slow X hammer walk up or a full on X step! Which means my weight transfer is not happening at the right time, to make my arm feel heavy and sort of lagged and like it's behind me and needs to get slung forward NOW. So I'm just feeling really lost on HOW and WHEN to get the weight moving forward and WHEN to get turned away, and WHEN to start moving my arm forward and how fast?

3. The other thing I think about often and can see happening, but can not do in person is this idea I just saw SW post again for other Ryan. He used Barry Schultz as an example? The idea of being up on your rear left foot balanced and poised to then move your weight forward hard, just like a pitcher. Pushing your weight. So coming into your x step, then being up on your rear toe, then sort of floating there and then quickly pushing/moving your plant leg forward and then planting. I try to do it, and it doesn't work. It feels more like I'm being pulled forward, not pushed forward. But put a tennis racket in my hand, and it just happens. I'm light on my feet, and the weight transfer just happens. I don't even have to think about it. And then the racket gets whipped through the ball with loads of speed. But put the disc in my hand, and this doesn't happen! Do you recommend that I just practice this X step movement of pushing my weight forward like a pitcher without throwing? Like a TON? Over and over again? Or is throwing the best way to learn it? I also had SP mention something about feeling like his shoulder is going to be able to check somebody in front of him right when he's about to throw. And that the idea is helping him gain loads of distance with less effort. So that's another thing that I'm wondering about now and haven't read before (or if I did, it was once and I already forgot).

I'm thinking a lot about HUBs super heavy rock throw drill, and how he says it really helped his mind gel with the idea of weight transfer, timing and balance. And wondering if any other people here have tried it and had great success? I don't have a huge heavy rock to throw, so I'm not going to go find one or buy one if the idea isn't really that helpful.

Thoughts on all of this? And ideas on how to improve? Thanks

 

[slowplastic]

I also had SP mention something about feeling like his shoulder is going to be able to check somebody in front of him right when he's about to throw. And that the idea is helping him gain loads of distance with less effort. So that's another thing that I'm wondering about now and haven't read before (or if I did, it was once and I already forgot).

Yeah this is definitely helping me, and others had said it to me previously I just didn't "get it". I know SW says he feels like it's the back of his right shoulder.

Also it's like a series of small barriers you leverage yourself through...and each of your levers hits through the next one. Like think of a few paper thin walls in front of you like 6-12" apart. It feels like I transfer to the front leg and then body check my shoulder and upper arm through the first one...this body check brings my upper arm forward and the disc will be near my core. Then I'm kind of having my forearm sling out through the next one although I'm not thinking about my forearm's weight, it's just releasing the arm by swinging at the shoulder. At this point I'm thinking of guiding the back edge of the disc toward the target on the momentum line, so that its back edge will sling through and break through another thin wall.

Basically the slow to fast feeling to me is using my tempo or body weight shift to bring the arm/shoulder forward, getting the disc to what feels like my belly button or right hip. At this point I feel like I'm opening toward the target a bit and I can swing the disc forward away from me...like the arm motion is away and not sideways. The weight transfer is getting to the "launch position", and from here is where you swing the disc away from you. Like starting a putting motion down by your hips or CoM and pushing it away to the basket...just in this case you're swinging so the release is closed to the right instead of straight away from your core.

Keep in mind everything I described is FEEL based.

I think SW's revolving door video is a great visualization of this. He uses is weight settling to get the hand/door near his front foot, and at this point it has a little bit of momentum. He then just adds to the momentum by pushing the door away from him, which is accomplished by swinging his arm.

Basically give the arm/disc a bit of momentum by using your body weight, and once it's in position in front of you you can then swing it away.

 

[UhhNegative]

So some things I've been thinking about how to do, or how to do better, or just thinking about lately are the following:

1. Am I swinging my upper body and arm too fast too early in the swing? I go back and read certain posts/emails/and blog entries from HUB, and I just constantly see the message of SLOW DOWN. And then SLOW DOWN EVEN MORE. Which I understand and don't at the same time. If you watch any good player, they're not going slow. Unless it's a shorter touch shot. They may be smooth, but they definitely are going medium speed in the back swing and then FULL OUT on the throw. But I'm just wondering, should it be much slower than you think all the way until the disc is around your chest area? Or before that?

Ever seen Paul Oman? Prepare for your mind to be blown to see what's possible moving at a slow speed. So basically, yes, it's slow until the "power pocket" then explosion. The good players can bring the disc faster into their chest correctly, resulting in more redirection/force on the shot but its much harder to do.

 

[sidewinder22]

Hard to explain some of this stuff man.

1. From my own personal experience going from strong arming to whipping effortlessly, it feels like the first half of the forward swing is slow as molasses when you are loose, compared to pulling the disc forward with tightening muscles. It felt like I was waiting forever for my weight to shift and arm/disc loads into center and then explode out. The weird thing that sounds completely paradoxical is that when I started getting that smooth transition my backswing it felt longer and shorter at the same time, shorter reachback with the arm but longer backswing with the body turning further back.



2. I hate the word timing. It's a sequence, when your sequence is correct your timing can be variable and still smash it. Your weight shift/balance to the front leg leads the sequence to whip the arm.

3. That was Nate Doss, not Barry. Winding up like pitcher on rear leg is the mirror of One Leg Drill. It's really more about BALANCE and manipulating your CoG than weightshift. When you get One Leg Drill, then it should be easy to work your way back to the rear leg and know how you have to move to get back forward. If I can throw 400' in One Leg Drill, what does that tell you about weightshift? To me weightshift just elongates/stretches my swing from my center to accelerate longer. Am I moving fast in One Leg Drill?

 

[SuperWookie]

Hey, before I respond, I have a question on how to do something here on this site. HOW in the heck do you guys post youtube videos that actually show up, and put gifs in the posts that show up? I've tried doing that and it never works. If I use the link, photo, or yt buttons to put a link in, it just shows up as code or if it's a yt video, it says it doesn't work! I would really like to use gifs and videos in my posts, but can't usually figure it out. Thanks

 

[UhhNegative]

Hey, before I respond, I have a question on how to do something here on this site. HOW in the heck do you guys post youtube videos that actually show up, and put gifs in the posts that show up? I've tried doing that and it never works. If I use the link, photo, or yt buttons to put a link in, it just shows up as code or if it's a yt video, it says it doesn't work! I would really like to use gifs and videos in my posts, but can't usually figure it out. Thanks

Reply with quote to this comment and look at the following code. In the future if you are curious you can always reply with quote and see what the code is.

Basically for youtube you only need the part of the link after "v=" and for images/gifs you need the actual image link (ends in .jpg, .png, some picture format) inside of the img tags

 

[SuperWookie]

Ever seen Paul Oman? Prepare for your mind to be blown to see what's possible moving at a slow speed. So basically, yes, it's slow until the "power pocket" then explosion. The good players can bring the disc faster into their chest correctly, resulting in more redirection/force on the shot but its much harder to do.

Hard to explain some of this stuff man.

1. From my own personal experience going from strong arming to whipping effortlessly, it feels like the first half of the forward swing is slow as molasses when you are loose, compared to pulling the disc forward with tightening muscles. It felt like I was waiting forever for my weight to shift and arm/disc loads into center and then explode out. The weird thing that sounds completely paradoxical is that when I started getting that smooth transition my backswing it felt longer and shorter at the same time, shorter reachback with the arm but longer backswing with the body turning further back.

2. I hate the word timing. It's a sequence, when your sequence is correct your timing can be variable and still smash it. Your weight shift/balance to the front leg leads the sequence to whip the arm.

3. That was Nate Doss, not Barry. Winding up like pitcher on rear leg is the mirror of One Leg Drill. It's really more about BALANCE and manipulating your CoG than weightshift. When you get One Leg Drill, then it should be easy to work your way back to the rear leg and know how you have to move to get back forward. If I can throw 400' in One Leg Drill, what does that tell you about weightshift? To me weightshift just elongates/stretches my swing from my center to accelerate longer. Am I moving fast in One Leg Drill?

Of course one of you finds a super slow throwing guy to try and prove a point, ahaha Overall though, most of the players don't throw that way. But it is interesting to see how different people can throw far with slow, medium or fast swings. Just goes to show it's not how fast your swing is, but how you strategically do specific things in the throw to make sure the disc is going super fast right before it comes out of your hand. But this and some things SW mentioned below really do prove my point of how confusing this all is to me. A majority good throwers, pro or am, don't throw slow like Oman on long throws. They really get at it on long shots.

And another example would be watching someone like Seppo or especially Paul. On slightly "shorter" (for them) shots of like 250-400 some of those guys can and do look like their barely trying and just being super smooth. Like with a super slow x step walk up and barely any reach/turn back. But somehow they sling the disc out! But then you watch Simon or Eagle (and others) and they look like their trying to throw almost every disc to the moon and back. They just RIP into it! So it's SUPER confusing to me trying to learn, to know EXACTLY WHAT allows me to throw far.

Just like you mention SW, you can throw it 350-400 from a standstill doing the 1 leg drill! Doesn't make sense. And I remember the first time I watched HUBS windmill practice video and he's just casually tossing mid range discs 350-375 while up on his rear foot!!! It's absolutely ridiculous! It doesn't seem possible. I have NO IDEA how you guys are doing it! And I don't understand how Paul and others can throw a disc 250-350 with barely any reach back or forward weight transfer! If I tried to throw like this, I'd get 200-250 maybe!!!

Something like this is what I'm referring to:

1 So this first part is possibly really important, and something I'm going to mess around with. This super molasses slow first part of the swing and then exploding.

And another thing I was just thinking about while trying to fall asleep that maybe something I'm not doing or understanding is the actual hit. So I'm under the assumption from reading and watching that as the body moves forward into the actual hit, that the leg gently sets down, then your heel crushes the can and then your body just smoothly keeps moving through and the disc comes out. But when I think about a whip, you can't whip it unless you literally pump the breaks right before you want the whip to… well whip. So your hand would be making a pattern in the air and then WHAM, the hand stop to allow the whip to sling forward and snap! But in disc golf, it LOOKS like every single person throwing is just continuasly moving their body through the hit. But it got me thinking, in golf, tennis, hockey, baseball etc, there is a moment (some sports it's more and some less) right when you hit or throw the ball, that your body and arms and everything more or less STOPs and HITS the ball, THEN moves through after that. But there is a definite stopping of momentum for a split second to smash the ball. So baseball, I'm moving my body forward, rotating, and then my plant leg slams my momentum to a stop to leverage my arms coming through behind me and SLINGS the h*ll out of the bat into the ball smashing the heck out of it! But all that momentum is too much, so it keeps going right after I hit the ball. Same with golf and tennis. There is a moment right when you hit the ball that your boy sort of stops for a split second to pull back sort of and sling your arms into the ball to smash it.

So is that something that happens in Disc golf? Do I need to be feeling/doing that? I feel like that could be a HUGE key to throwing far with less effort as opposed to the way I do it now which is just one long continuous motion of moving through the hit.

3 See, I don't get this. I can go into a tennis backhand or a golf swing without perfect balance and absolutely CRUSH the ball. The balance just keeps me standing up, and makes the shot more repeatable or consistent. But you don't HAVE to be in balance to hit a tennis or baseball far. So I don't understand this part at all. I understand how balance can HELP the swing, and make it slightly better, but it's not the main reason one is able to smash a backhand in tennis, hit a golf ball far, or hit a HR 500'. There's other things going on that allow that really hard hit. Same with a baseball swing. I've seen guys with CRAZY a$$ swings almost falling over absolutely CRUSH balls 500+ feet. So when you say BALANCE is important to throwing well/far, I just don't see it or understand it. Maybe you can explain it more? Explain how and why the balance in your mind is a big reason for the distance. Because I'm just not seeing that as a major factor to distance. A factor... yes, but minor in the grand scheme of being able to throw FAR. I'd say balance is a huge part of consistency, not distance. Like if I have subpar balance, I can still hit a golf ball a mile, just not very often. Whereas with the balance, I can hit it far almost every time.

And I've done the one leg drill many many times and with pretty good results. Not your level, but that's also because I can't throw well in general. If I do the one leg vs a small x step, I really don't see a huge distance gap. It's pretty close even with my FW's. But regardless of how I throw, NOTHING feels right. I NEVER feel like the disc is ZIPPING out of my hand super hard and fast like when I hit a baseball, tennis ball or golf ball. Even just throwing a baseball, I can get whip, but not with a disc! I feel like I'm not going to get this ever. I keep going to the field, practicing, and reading non-stop, and yet barely anything changes :wall: If this keeps up for much longer, I think I'm going to have to seriously consider taking a road trip to Denver and wherever SW lives, and spend a day or two under their tutelage, haha

 

[UhhNegative]

Of course one of you finds a super slow throwing guy to try and prove a point, ahaha Overall though, most of the players don't throw that way. But it is interesting to see how different people can throw far with slow, medium or fast swings. Just goes to show it's not how fast your swing is, but how you strategically do specific things in the throw to make sure the disc is going super fast right before it comes out of your hand. But this and some things SW mentioned below really do prove my point of how confusing this all is to me. A majority good throwers, pro or am, don't throw slow like Oman on long throws. They really get at it on long shots.

And another example would be watching someone like Seppo or especially Paul. On slightly "shorter" (for them) shots of like 250-400 some of those guys can and do look like their barely trying and just being super smooth. Like with a super slow x step walk up and barely any reach/turn back. But somehow they sling the disc out! But then you watch Simon or Eagle (and others) and they look like their trying to throw almost every disc to the moon and back. They just RIP into it! So it's SUPER confusing to me trying to learn, to know EXACTLY WHAT allows me to throw far.

Just like you mention SW, you can throw it 350-400 from a standstill doing the 1 leg drill! Doesn't make sense. And I remember the first time I watched HUBS windmill practice video and he's just casually tossing mid range discs 350-375 while up on his rear foot!!! It's absolutely ridiculous! It doesn't seem possible. I have NO IDEA how you guys are doing it! And I don't understand how Paul and others can throw a disc 250-350 with barely any reach back or forward weight transfer! If I tried to throw like this, I'd get 200-250 maybe!!!

Something like this is what I'm referring to:

1 So this first part is possibly really important, and something I'm going to mess around with. This super molasses slow first part of the swing and then exploding.

And another thing I was just thinking about while trying to fall asleep that maybe something I'm not doing or understanding is the actual hit. So I'm under the assumption from reading and watching that as the body moves forward into the actual hit, that the leg gently sets down, then your heel crushes the can and then your body just smoothly keeps moving through and the disc comes out. But when I think about a whip, you can't whip it unless you literally pump the breaks right before you want the whip to… well whip. So your hand would be making a pattern in the air and then WHAM, the hand stop to allow the whip to sling forward and snap! But in disc golf, it LOOKS like every single person throwing is just continuasly moving their body through the hit. But it got me thinking, in golf, tennis, hockey, baseball etc, there is a moment (some sports it's more and some less) right when you hit or throw the ball, that your body and arms and everything more or less STOPs and HITS the ball, THEN moves through after that. But there is a definite stopping of momentum for a split second to smash the ball. So baseball, I'm moving my body forward, rotating, and then my plant leg slams my momentum to a stop to leverage my arms coming through behind me and SLINGS the h*ll out of the bat into the ball smashing the heck out of it! But all that momentum is too much, so it keeps going right after I hit the ball. Same with golf and tennis. There is a moment right when you hit the ball that your boy sort of stops for a split second to pull back sort of and sling your arms into the ball to smash it.

So is that something that happens in Disc golf? Do I need to be feeling/doing that? I feel like that could be a HUGE key to throwing far with less effort as opposed to the way I do it now which is just one long continuous motion of moving through the hit.

3 See, I don't get this. I can go into a tennis backhand or a golf swing without perfect balance and absolutely CRUSH the ball. The balance just keeps me standing up, and makes the shot more repeatable or consistent. But you don't HAVE to be in balance to hit a tennis or baseball far. So I don't understand this part at all. I understand how balance can HELP the swing, and make it slightly better, but it's not the main reason one is able to smash a backhand in tennis, hit a golf ball far, or hit a HR 500'. There's other things going on that allow that really hard hit. Same with a baseball swing. I've seen guys with CRAZY a$$ swings almost falling over absolutely CRUSH balls 500+ feet. So when you say BALANCE is important to throwing well/far, I just don't see it or understand it. Maybe you can explain it more? Explain how and why the balance in your mind is a big reason for the distance. Because I'm just not seeing that as a major factor to distance. A factor... yes, but minor in the grand scheme of being able to throw FAR. I'd say balance is a huge part of consistency, not distance. Like if I have subpar balance, I can still hit a golf ball a mile, just not very often. Whereas with the balance, I can hit it far almost every time.

And I've done the one leg drill many many times and with pretty good results. Not your level, but that's also because I can't throw well in general. If I do the one leg vs a small x step, I really don't see a huge distance gap. It's pretty close even with my FW's. But regardless of how I throw, NOTHING feels right. I NEVER feel like the disc is ZIPPING out of my hand super hard and fast like when I hit a baseball, tennis ball or golf ball. Even just throwing a baseball, I can get whip, but not with a disc! I feel like I'm not going to get this ever. I keep going to the field, practicing, and reading non-stop, and yet barely anything changes :wall: If this keeps up for much longer, I think I'm going to have to seriously consider taking a road trip to Denver and wherever SW lives, and spend a day or two under their tutelage, haha

Yes! That's exactly right. A whip, a pendulum, ball on a string, all the same analogies to the throw. The arm isn't doing the powering, it IS the whip. Really from shoulder up to the grip should be relaxed, then all the focus is on keeping tight grip, but loose arm. Sounds weird, feels weird, but when you get it, you'll know. It will feel like your golf shots.

The difference is that in disc golf your arm is the entire club. So it's not just the weight of an external club that you are holding that is being slung, like a golf shot (not 100% true), but rather its the weight of your entire arm/disc unit that is being slung. Disc golf is arguably a more difficult swing because there's both less weight and a shorter lever that you can FEEL being swung around (one arm + 175g disc with a ~6' lever vs two arms + 300+g club with a ~6'+~3' lever) AND gravity is more parallel to the plane of the shot. Does that make sense? That's why SW22 and HUB have drills involving swinging a hammer or something heavy. Your body is perfectly made to manipulate big weights, but its harder for the brain to make that connection when there's less weight involved.