Tech disc test driven development

[RowingBoats]

Finally got to try my Dad's tech disc yesterday. He has a huuuuge net it was pretty sweet.

My backhand standstill was a pretty consistent 59-61mph, with about a -1 nose angle on most throws. I think if I had a tech disc or a net I would injure myself because its way more fun to throw into a net than I imagined.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

Finally got to try my Dad's tech disc yesterday. He has a huuuuge net it was pretty sweet.

My backhand standstill was a pretty consistent 59-61mph, with about a -1 nose angle on most throws. I think if I had a tech disc or a net I would injure myself because its way more fun to throw into a net than I imagined.

You mean it's fun to throw into a net when you have the stats? Haha, I'm assuming you aren't as tempted to go overboard with just a regular disc and net. But yeah, it's so hard to resist. Last time I was just going to throw a couple max effort shots but was mad I wasn't hitting my usual speed, so 20 max effort throws later, I was like, I HAVE TO STOP DOING THIS!

You try any interesting tweaks? Also what was your spin?

 

[itlnstln]

Elbow tucking for me is a speed regulation move. I feel discomfort days later if I'm slamming wide elbow multiple high power forehands flat or hyzer. If I keep my elbow tucked I top out in the 300s with drivers or around 200 with mids but no pain days later.

What's interesting is I have zero discomfort throwing forehand rollers at very high power and last time I tested on sidewinders tech disc I was averaging 5mph faster throwing wide elbow roller angles.

Once I'm back throwing again, I'm most likely going to have to be forehand dominant for a while. I get elbow discomfort from FHs as well. Throwing from a 3/4 arm slot helps, but limits my lines and disc selection. I'm going to try tucking the elbow and see if that helps.

I think there's some interaction between getting pop on the disc and needing to stop the wrist putting stress on the elbow, but I haven't been able to figure it out

 

[RowingBoats]

You mean it's fun to throw into a net when you have the stats? Haha, I'm assuming you aren't as tempted to go overboard with just a regular disc and net. But yeah, it's so hard to resist. Last time I was just going to throw a couple max effort shots but was mad I wasn't hitting my usual speed, so 20 max effort throws later, I was like, I HAVE TO STOP DOING THIS!

You try any interesting tweaks? Also what was your spin?

I was mostly checking speed/nose/launch just trying to throw normal controlled shots that I would throw most of a normal round. I can try to get a screen of a group of throws, but spin was over 1000 every time i glanced, and I don't think I saw more than 1200 rpm.

We were all hanging out for father's day so I didn't have tons of time.

Im very sold that it is accurate enough to be mega useful though. The only tweaks I did were to see if I could throw nose up deliberately, and that was mostly just to see if the readout changed, which it did

 

[disc-golf-neil]

Once I'm back throwing again, I'm most likely going to have to be forehand dominant for a while. I get elbow discomfort from FHs as well. Throwing from a 3/4 arm slot helps, but limits my lines and disc selection. I'm going to try tucking the elbow and see if that helps.

I think there's some interaction between getting pop on the disc and needing to stop the wrist putting stress on the elbow, but I haven't been able to figure it out

I'd recommend eccentric wrist exercises done really slowly, flexion and extension coupled with pronation and supination exercises.

The eccentric ones helped me recover from tendonitis from climbing, it took a while for it to start being noticeable, but ever since then (2015) I've kept up with them as prehab and for 9 years of climbing never had a bad flare up again, only very minor.

When I got into pickleball after having not played racket sports for a while, I went really hard really fast, playing a ton, swinging hard a lot and had no issues, same with disc golf. So I think that continual prehab + the prior conditioning from climbing really helped. Normally if you go hard in a new sport where tendonitis is common it's very easy to get tendonitis.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

I was mostly checking speed/nose/launch just trying to throw normal controlled shots that I would throw most of a normal round. I can try to get a screen of a group of throws, but spin was over 1000 every time i glanced, and I don't think I saw more than 1200 rpm.

We were all hanging out for father's day so I didn't have tons of time.

Im very sold that it is accurate enough to be mega useful though. The only tweaks I did were to see if I could throw nose up deliberately, and that was mostly just to see if the readout changed, which it did

what mechanically did you change to throw nose up?

 

[RowingBoats]

what mechanically did you change to throw nose up?

The only thing I deliberately changed was grip, which took me from -1 to +10.

I don't want to claim that is for sure the only thing I do differently when I throw nose up deliberately, but I didn't try to rotate my wrist in any different way.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

The only thing I deliberately changed was grip, which took me from -1 to +10.

I don't want to claim that is for sure the only thing I do differently when I throw nose up deliberately, but I didn't try to rotate my wrist in any different way.

how did you change the grip, stop teasing dude

 

[RowingBoats]

how did you change the grip, stop teasing dude

Lol sorry I'm working - I was trying to quickly find your little grip chart to say...Ill edit this one in a few with that.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

Lol sorry I'm working - I was trying to quickly find your little grip chart to say...Ill edit this one in a few with that.

From which to which:

 

[RowingBoats]

From which to which:

Haha thanks, I just found this I remembered seeing it in your form thread.

So, we were using a fairway driver, probably like a 9 speed. Id say my normal grip to throw it nose down is F1.5, P2(ish), pretty snugly tucked in that meaty part of the thumb. Nose up on purpose was more F1.5, P -1.

I do think gripping in this way might just make me slightly increase radial deviation, so grip might not be the entire story.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

Haha thanks, I just found this I remembered seeing it in your form thread.

So, we were using a fairway driver, probably like a 9 speed. Id say my normal grip to throw it nose down is F1.5, P2(ish), pretty snugly tucked in that meaty part of the thumb. Nose up on purpose was more F1.5, P -1.

I do think gripping in this way might just make me slightly increase radial deviation, so grip might not be the entire story.

yeah, I think for a lot of people that change encourages some pronation too without thinking about it.

Rotating the disc in the hand like that makes the disc orientation look closer to how it is when you pronate without changing the grip. It's not exactly in the same direction but close enough I think to prompt a tendency towards pronation in the swing. If you try it again it would be interesting to see if you can throw nose down with your 'nose up grip' when you really focus on still throwing nose down (pour the coffee more too maybe). Pouring the coffee is more effective for me in an alignment closer to your nose up grip than it is in the alignments in the other direction.

For me moving the grip alignment in that direction (all the way to P-3) doesn't give me more nose up because I have a strong feeling from before I started briefcase to orient myself initially by holding the disc perpendicular to my chest when in the power pocket position so when changing the grip alignment I instinctually adjust the wrist to re-level it, interesting though as you'll remember when doing that and going from F1P0 to F1P-3 I get more nose down so that's why I'd assume it's not the actual alignment as you speculated it might be downstream effects of how that adjustment creates a cascade of other adjustments.

The thing I like about my approach with leveling the disc initially is it brings to the forefront the side effect adjustments so it is more clear what is additionally changing up front and less of a mystery and therefore it seems more clear where the change in stats is coming from. Of course, often the most direct way to get someone to change something in their form is indirect, by having them change something else that encourages the actual change you want, but there's too much of that going on in DG where people think the indirect change is the actual change, especially when it happens to prompt many people similarly to make the same additional changes.

My goal is to have the knowledge of both so that if the change that you hope prompts something else to change doesn't work, maybe being more direct will work. Or you can reverse engineer a different change to prompt what you really want to change.

 

[RowingBoats]

yeah, I think for a lot of people that change encourages some pronation too without thinking about it.

Rotating the disc in the hand like that makes the disc orientation look closer to how it is when you pronate without changing the grip. It's not exactly in the same direction but close enough I think to prompt a tendency towards pronation in the swing. If you try it again it would be interesting to see if you can throw nose down with your 'nose up grip' when you really focus on still throwing nose down (pour the coffee more too maybe). Pouring the coffee is more effective for me in an alignment closer to your nose up grip than it is in the alignments in the other direction.

For me moving the grip alignment in that direction (all the way to P-3) doesn't give me more nose up because I have a strong feeling from before I started briefcase to orient myself initially by holding the disc perpendicular to my chest when in the power pocket position so when changing the grip alignment I instinctually adjust the wrist to re-level it, interesting though as you'll remember when doing that and going from F1P0 to F1P-3 I get more nose down so that's why I'd assume it's not the actual alignment as you speculated it might be downstream effects of how that adjustment creates a cascade of other adjustments.

The thing I like about my approach with leveling the disc initially is it brings to the forefront the side effect adjustments so it is more clear what is additionally changing up front and less of a mystery and therefore it seems more clear where the change in stats is coming from. Of course, often the most direct way to get someone to change something in their form is indirect, by having them change something else that encourages the actual change you want, but there's too much of that going on in DG where people think the indirect change is the actual change, especially when it happens to prompt many people similarly to make the same additional changes.

My goal is to have the knowledge of both so that if the change that you hope prompts something else to change doesn't work, maybe being more direct will work. Or you can reverse engineer a different change to prompt what you really want to change.

Ya, I 100% could be doing any number of things that I'm not aware of. I learned by throwing lots of discs, and there is just a feeling associated with throwing different shapes.

With that said, if I had a tech disc at home I'd spend a good amount of time trying to figure that stuff out analytically.

Also...I think its hard for us all to actually calibrate our grips using that chart, I can see us all slightly differing with how we interpret it. My hands are really small, and I try to line up faster discs to see where it lands. It becomes really hard to tell for me when I hold a putter. The one thing I can confirm is that to increase nose-up deliberately, I move the palm from positive to negative in direction.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

Tried implementing some advice I got from SW22 and Brychanus but didn't understand how to implement it before but think I got a more clear cue to use now:

When I first hit 65 mph a while ago, I've been able to hit 64-65 nearly every tech disc session since then even with a lot of different things being tested, but lately I've been stuck at 60-62. Maybe because I hurt my knee in pickleball; it doesn't hurt when bracing, just more achy / sore after but with that in the back of my head maybe I'm guarding it too much. However, this session at the end I hit 64-65 four times in a row which is pretty big considering the recent history of lower speeds.

 

[Ebp921]

I think your the first person I've ever seen mention massively different grips. I've never seen anyone do the f1p-3 grip especially a pro (Gavin Rathbun). It's really cool to see you experimenting with different grips not just different pressures.

I've been having trouble with throwing nose down. When it stops raining I'm gonna try F1P-3 grip. I also think you've made the perfect standard for grip mapping.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

I think your the first person I've ever seen mention massively different grips. I've never seen anyone do the f1p-3 grip especially a pro (Gavin Rathbun). It's really cool to see you experimenting with different grips not just different pressures.

I've been having trouble with throwing nose down. When it stops raining I'm gonna try F1P-3 grip. I also think you've made the perfect standard for grip mapping.

I think that grip is more common than you think among pros, it's just hard to notice. I'm just super used to noticing good camera angle opportunities when watching and then go back and frame by frame to get a close look. Although sometimes it's misleading, E.g., IIRC, Joey Buckets (forgot his real last name) looks like he uses the Rathbun / F1P-3 grip but then at some point it seems to slot back into the middle palm groove. I kept noticing it initially but then I'd pause on a view closer to the hit and it'd look like it wasn't the same.

Also, I think the people who use F1P-3 are probably less likely to continue using it when throwing putters and mids, it doesn't feel as comfortable to use on discs with those blunter rims but I haven't paid attention to Rathbun's putter throws, that would be a good thing to look out for.

 

[GripEnemy]

Hey uh...what in the world is an f1p-3 grip? When was that name created?

Give me a history lesson.

 

[Ebp921]

Its Neil's hand mapping of different grip alignments across the hand.

So what seems to be pretty standard grip alignment would be f1p0.

 

[Ebp921]

I think that grip is more common than you think among pros, it's just hard to notice. I'm just super used to noticing good camera angle opportunities when watching and then go back and frame by frame to get a close look. Although sometimes it's misleading, E.g., IIRC, Joey Buckets (forgot his real last name) looks like he uses the Rathbun / F1P-3 grip but then at some point it seems to slot back into the middle palm groove. I kept noticing it initially but then I'd pause on a view closer to the hit and it'd look like it wasn't the same.

Also, I think the people who use F1P-3 are probably less likely to continue using it when throwing putters and mids, it doesn't feel as comfortable to use on discs with those blunter rims but I haven't paid attention to Rathbun's putter throws, that would be a good thing to look out for.

Yeah the sharp edge of drivers seems to hold in the F1P-3 easier. I don't have a ton of meat in that part of my palm, dosent like to stay down there.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

Its Neil's hand mapping of different grip alignments across the hand. View attachment 343383

So what seems to be pretty standard grip alignment would be f1p0.

Here's the one with labels for what "F" and "P" refer to:



And yeah it seems like F1P0 (draw a line between the two) and F1P-1 are most common from what I've seen in pro footage followed by F1P-2 and F1P-3 as second most common. Hard to get good angles to see though.