Tech disc test driven development

[disc-golf-neil]

 

[disc-golf-neil]

 

[disc-golf-neil]

 

[Sheep]

Bracing out vs towards is how you can keep steps small and control your hips.

Part of the brace is about the resistance and push back.
Part of the brace is about controlling our hips.

You can see it really well with simon and paul. When they smash, they step way forward, when they are moving slow and going for control, they step short and out to control the hips.

So, teaching wise, you teach people based on their ability to weightshift and their balance.
If you cant get up onto the front leg in time, you need to step shorter obviously to make sure that gets in time.
But now you'll over rotate, so you need to step out some to compensate controlling the hips.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

Bracing out vs towards is how you can keep steps small and control your hips.

Part of the brace is about the resistance and push back.
Part of the brace is about controlling our hips.

You can see it really well with simon and paul. When they smash, they step way forward, when they are moving slow and going for control, they step short and out to control the hips.

So, teaching wise, you teach people based on their ability to weightshift and their balance.
If you cant get up onto the front leg in time, you need to step shorter obviously to make sure that gets in time.
But now you'll over rotate, so you need to step out some to compensate controlling the hips.

Controlling the hips is a bit vague sounding so I'm not totally sure what you mean by that. How does a wider brace control the hips more than a more inline brace?

I'd like to see two back views of Simon, one where he's doing a more controlled shot and one where he is ripping it to see how different his brace path is but I wouldn't be surprised if it changes like you say.

This one I think is a rip and it looks initially like he's bracing inline but then it goes out a bit wider towards the end but maybe not as much because he has a lots of forward momentum for a bigger throw.

 

[Sheep]

Controlling the hips is a bit vague sounding so I'm not totally sure what you mean by that. How does a wider brace control the hips more than a more inline brace?

I'd like to see two back views of Simon, one where he's doing a more controlled shot and one where he is ripping it to see how different his brace path is but I wouldn't be surprised if it changes like you say.

This one I think is a rip and it looks initially like he's bracing inline but then it goes out a bit wider towards the end.

Where your hips stop is where the disc goes if your upper body is in time. Your hips will always point in the direction the disc is going to go unless you're doing something insanely dumb, or purposefully trying to kill that timing.

So depending on how you stagger or step out can control the hips stopping.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

I suspect the difference in stats is due to the wider reach back making it easier to get a bit deeper into the pocket without directly trying to do that.

Makes me want to focus on a deeper pocket more directly now which might make my inline reach back better too. But I don't think an elbow-drive-deeper cue is ideal for me. I normally think about an elbow drive but I get some elbow dip when doing that so maybe I'll try some other deep pocket cues like trying to bring the disc to the armpit but not thinking about elbow driving to do it.

 

[Sheep]

View attachment 345975

I suspect the difference in stats is due to the wider reach back making it easier to get a bit deeper into the pocket without directly trying to do that.

Makes me want to focus on a deeper pocket more directly now which might make my inline reach back better too. But I don't think an elbow-drive-deeper cue is ideal for me. I normally think about an elbow drive but I get some elbow dip when doing that so maybe I'll try some other deep pocket cues like trying to bring the disc to the armpit but not thinking about elbow driving to do it.

I've always looked at wide rail being high spin from my experience.
And you seem to have shown that with tech disc.

Problem with wide rail is while its easier to get deep pocket, its also more active action. its really easy to collapse the shoulder on wide rail.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

I've always looked at wide rail being high spin from my experience.
And you seem to have shown that with tech disc.

Problem with wide rail is while its easier to get deep pocket, its also more active action. its really easy to collapse the shoulder on wide rail.

If I had to guess it's more about the deep pocket than the wide rail so if I learn to get a deeper pocket with a more inline reachback then we'll see if I get similar spin.

The wide rail doesn't feel easier for collapse to happen for me unless the reach back starts early like when coiling is starting instead of ending / nearing the end. When the reachback / elbow extension is early with a wide rail, it feels like the torso twist / shoulder coil adds some swing onto the arm so that the arm is swinging into the chest before you've even begun the pull through and then you have that additional force you have to resist to avoid it causing a collapse. However, if the disc is kept close to the body during most of the torso twist / shoulder coil then the wide rail doesn't seem any more prone to collapse to me and I think this is a good practice with either reach back style that you see a lot of pros do--initially while coiling the disc stays close to the chest or abdomen or left hip before the reach back starts.

An exaggerated example would be putting your arms out and spinning around counter clockwise then suddenly stopping and trying to turn clockwise, the arm swings into your chest so you have to put more focus into stopping collapse from that kind of motion which is much less likely to be a factor if you keep the disc close / inside until near the end of coiling or have a more inline reachback.

For example, you can see Ezra R bring the disc towards the left hip when coiling starts before the reach back:

Kyle K who doesn't reach back as wide also does a similar thing while others just kind of hold it still near their chest or below the chest during the initial part of the coil before reaching back.

Of course there's a lot of other factors like the initial motion of the pull through, if it's more across the chest or into the chest.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

I was trying some deep pocket practice the other day and accidentally reached back ridiculously wide because I started holding the disc in an extra deep position to try to remind myself / prime the feeling of the deep pocket, but because my shoulder angle was already really wide before the reach back it accidentally transferred into my reachback on the first few throws.

It didn't feel like there was any increased risk of collapse though even from that stupidly wide reachback.

Planning to try more direct deep pocket tests with the tech disc soonish.

The pump idea at the end is just an idea for priming the muscle memory instead of holding the initial disc position already deep which makes my pump feel weird, hold the initial position near the left pec but make the pump a curl-to-armpit motion to get some easy reinforcement of what I want to do just before I'm about to try to do it.
View attachment deep pocket practice.mp4

 

[disc-golf-neil]

Tech disc bugged out on the hyzer stat during this test (low battery) but seemed to get fixed during the second set of throws. Some evidence shown in vid. Nose angle possible in error too, not sure. Other stats seemed normal though based on past results.

 

[sidewinder22]

its really easy to collapse the shoulder on wide rail.

I think it's harder to collapse the shoulder on wide rail. It's anti-rounding.

 

[Sheep]

If you're primary driver of your throw is an arm throw, you'll probably not feel it not wanting to collapse.

If your timing is more body centric, it's really easy to collapse the front shoulder.

It looks from the video that you're more arm focused than body focused, so thats probably why youre not feeling the accidental collapse.

I like wide rail, but it takes me far more concentration to throw it. From what I can tell only a few touring players really switch between linear and wide rail throwing. Mainly Paul and Simon are the 2 I notice the most. More Paul than anyone.

People trash on oakleys throw, but its a true example of a wide rail throw.

 

[Sheep]

I think it's harder to collapse the shoulder on wide rail. It's anti-rounding.

Interesting. Most of the people I see trying it never get the disc into the pocket. They collapse the shoulder and hug themselves.

I know that I have to consciously put the disc in the pocket on a wide rail. It doesn't naturally fall there.