[Compare] The Challenger,KC Pro Aviar or the Wizard?

[BogeyNoMore]

It's not skewed. It's a fact of life that you can find any consistency of Wizard you want, and Aviars and Challengers are limited. Challengers really don't come in a wide variety of firmness either.

Not as many as Wizards, but (edited - forgot all the differences in Aviars):
Pro D: pretty stiff (but no where near G9i stiff)
Elite X: is a bit softer
Soft Elite X: softer still, and breaks in to be softest of them all
FLX: about the same as softness as Soft Elite X starts out with, but stays that way even after long time use.

Mind you, while I'm listing plastic types, these each feel pretty different in terms of where they lie on the scale ranging from stiff to soft. Just my take on it.

 

[Dan Ensor]

Not as many as Wizards, but (edited - forgot all the differences in Aviars):
Pro D: pretty stiff (but no where near G9i stiff)
Elite X: is a bit softer
Soft Elite X: softer still, and breaks in to be softest of them all
FLX: about the same as softness as Soft Elite X starts out with, but stays that way even after long time use.

Mind you, while I'm listing plastic types, these each feel pretty different in terms of where they lie on the scale ranging from stiff to soft. Just my take on it.

Either way, it's not skewed, because variety is part of what determines preferences. I'm not much of an expert on Aviars or Challengers.

well i meant it more in the fact that it listed a certain type of plastic for aviars when there are so many varieties but left challengers and wizards general. Im just an aviar lover of all types i could never limit myself to just KC

I see. I was assuming KC Aviars were a particular mold like Yetis.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Either way, it's not skewed, because variety is part of what determines preferences. I'm not much of an expert on Aviars or Challengers.

Agree completely - softness/firmness are what some people base their decision on. If Gateway offers the greatest variety, so be it. The pole will reflect what people choose of the three.

 

[kirkmanbrandon]

Wizards forever. I was really into using Aviars and a Sole when I first started (and they're both great putters, no doubt) playing a few months ago but as soon as I held a wizard in my hand, I had fallen in love forever. We are now happily married and have two beautiful children (an eraser soft and S-series super soft)

 

[AndyJB]

I see. I was assuming KC Aviars were a particular mold like Yetis.

I'm not much up on my history, but I believe the KC Aviars came about because they released the beaded version of the Aviar and the Champ preferred it. But the Yeti, KC, JK and Aviar Driver are all the same mold (more or less, obviously the Yeti has the concave top) as well as CFR Big Bead Aviars which also come in glow.

Still nowhere near as many options as Wizards. A chalky, super firm KC Aviar in production would be my jam.

 

[Apoth]

But the Yeti, KC, JK and Aviar Driver are all the same mold (more or less, obviously the Yeti has the concave top) as well as CFR Big Bead Aviars which also come in glow.

That's right, though I think the JK may have a spacer in the mold when its run.

 

[bradharris]

I voted Challenger.

I've used all 3.

KC Aviar - I like the feel of the plastic, but it was a little too deep for me.
Wizard - I used Wizards for quite a while. But I went on bad putting streaks where they just didn't feel comfortable at all.
Challenger - Replaced the Wizard. I like the shallower profile and putt far more confidently with them than I did with Wizards.

 

[mashnut]

I chose the wizard because that's what I have and throw, and that's what I'm used to. I could play just as well with either of the others, they're perfectly good stable, beaded putters. You're not going to get any definitive answers here, the difference between those three is pretty small and it comes down mostly to personal preference.

 

[OregonDG420]

A chalky, super firm KC Aviar in production would be my jam.

YES!:thmbup:

 

[JTacoma03]

It's not skewed. It's a fact of life that you can find any consistency of Wizard you want, and Aviars and Challengers are limited. Challengers really don't come in a wide variety of firmness either.

You're kidding right? All of the putters mentioned come in a variety of flexibility and surface textures.

Aviar:
DX
R-Pro
R-Wood
JK Pro (beaded)
KC Pro (beaded)
McPro
Champion
Star

Challenger:
Pro-D (production runs)
Pro-D (team stamp/bar stamp)
Cam Todd
EMac
Soft X
CryZtal
CryZtal FLX
ESP FLX


just off the top of my head...

 

[jcassidy1990]

You're kidding right? All of the putters mentioned come in a variety of flexibility and surface textures.

Aviar:
DX
R-Pro
R-Wood
JK Pro (beaded)
KC Pro (beaded)
McPro
Champion
Star

Challenger:
Pro-D (production runs)
Pro-D (team stamp/bar stamp)
Cam Todd
EMac
Soft X
CryZtal
CryZtal FLX
ESP FLX


just off the top of my head...

Maybe it should have been worded that Gateways variety is more accessible and affordable. A CamTodd challenger is not available 5 for $40

...yet another reason the wiz reigns supreme IMO

 

[Dan Ensor]

You're kidding right? All of the putters mentioned come in a variety of flexibility and surface textures.

Aviar:
DX
R-Pro
R-Wood
JK Pro (beaded)
KC Pro (beaded)
McPro
Champion
Star

Challenger:
Pro-D (production runs)
Pro-D (team stamp/bar stamp)
Cam Todd
EMac
Soft X
CryZtal
CryZtal FLX
ESP FLX


just off the top of my head...

Off the top of my head:

Medium
Soft
Super Soft
Super Silly Soft
Real Freaking Flimsy
Eraser
Chalky
Organic
HPP

KC Aviar:
Pro
Star

Challenger:
FLX
Pro-D
Soft X

Where are you going to find me an R-Wood Aviar ? Is it a KC? Do signatures on discs really change how they fly/feel?

I don't feel like Classic Aviars count in this thread. It seems to be a "beaded, slightly overstable putter" thread.

 

[Ted Bratton]

You're kidding right? All of the putters mentioned come in a variety of flexibility and surface textures.

Aviar:
DX
R-Pro
R-Wood
JK Pro (beaded)
KC Pro (beaded)
McPro
Champion
Star

Challenger:
Pro-D (production runs)
Pro-D (team stamp/bar stamp)
Cam Todd
EMac
Soft X
CryZtal
CryZtal FLX
ESP FLX


just off the top of my head...

He is only referring to current standard production base plastic and the big bead aviar. That narrows it down to JK+KC Aviars and Pro D+Soft X Challengers. You can find JKs and KCs of various stiffness and feel but you are really trying to find a few great ones in a vast sea of mediocre and terrible ones that lack the durability, grip, and feel that they often had a few years ago. Regardless the variety is small compared to gateways S/suregrip "blend". You can find S that is reminiscent of wood or a porcelain plate. You can find S that is just like a good 10x aviar. You can find S that is really chalky and/or eraser like. You can find S that is really rubbery and tacky like some good old DX was. You can find S in the entire spectrum from blowfly-like to illegal completely inflexible ones. What they lack in consistency (not so desirable in this case) they make up for in variety and incredible feeling plastic. You can always find a couple fantastic feeling wizards just by going to a shop with a decent selection if you're lucky enough to have one. If you don't have one or you're very particular about finding a specific feel that you're hooked on you can just call gateway and they'll hook you up. Even if you like the challenger or BB aviar better than the wizard one can not deny that gateway blends some of the best putter plastic around on a regular basis.

Another company that makes incredible feeling base plastic (and premium plastic) is Legacy so check out the clozer.

 

[kirkmanbrandon]

Maybe it should have been worded that Gateways variety is more accessible and affordable. A CamTodd challenger is not available 5 for $40

...yet another reason the wiz reigns supreme IMO

Can't agree with this enough. I like to stay in a certain budget for all my disc golf purchases and the Wizards have always been the cheapest grabs and arguably the most used discs.

 

[JTacoma03]

Off the top of my head:

Medium
Soft
Super Soft
Super Silly Soft
Real Freaking Flimsy
Eraser
Chalky
Organic
HPP

Chalky and Eraser are not distinct types of wizards, they are characteristics of one. For example, when I used Wizards and Voodoos I liked Eraser-y SS in lighter shades of blue, green, and orange.

I also haven't even taken you to task on the fact that, let's face it, if you're going to bash Innova for QC then you must also bash Gateway. I've had SS marked gateway discs harder than Mediums and Softs that were SSS after one tree hit.

In reality Gateway makes 3-ish main types, Evo HPP, Organic, and SureGrip which is the S through SSSSS discs.

Where are you going to find me an R-Wood Aviar ? Is it a KC? Do signatures on discs really change how they fly/feel?

R-woods are common CFR molds. Also yes, JK and KC feel very different. I'm not trying to flame you, but you start posting that you don't know much about aviars and challengers, then bash them for not having variety, then further ask if their variety "really" varies.


Putt with what you like, more power to ya I'm not trying to change your mind, like I said I used to as well. I'm just saying don't bash what you don't know, because you're spreading bad intel here.

 

[JTacoma03]

He is only referring to current standard production base plastic and the big bead aviar. That narrows it down to JK+KC Aviars and Pro D+Soft X Challengers. You can find JKs and KCs of various stiffness and feel but you are really trying to find a few great ones in a vast sea of mediocre and terrible ones that lack the durability, grip, and feel that they often had a few years ago. Regardless the variety is small compared to gateways S/suregrip "blend". You can find S that is reminiscent of wood or a porcelain plate. You can find S that is just like a good 10x aviar. You can find S that is really chalky and/or eraser like. You can find S that is really rubbery and tacky like some good old DX was. You can find S in the entire spectrum from blowfly-like to illegal completely inflexible ones. What they lack in consistency (not so desirable in this case) they make up for in variety and incredible feeling plastic. You can always find a couple fantastic feeling wizards just by going to a shop with a decent selection if you're lucky enough to have one. If you don't have one or you're very particular about finding a specific feel that you're hooked on you can just call gateway and they'll hook you up. Even if you like the challenger or BB aviar better than the wizard one can not deny that gateway blends some of the best putter plastic around on a regular basis.

Another company that makes incredible feeling base plastic (and premium plastic) is Legacy so check out the clozer.

If you're going to call gateway variety of suregrip as a positive, you can't then call Innova's different runs (i.e. 10x KC, 11x KC, etc.) a negative.

Variety is variety, and all 3 companies in this poll have it.

 

[thisislorenb]

I THINK that these r the most popular putters of each of the 3 companies listed. I have no real experience with aviars but ive used wizards and challengers a lot and u can find a ton of different feelings of both and have no idea why the aviar would be an exception. So for anyone to say that companies as large as these in the DG world would not have different options for their more popular molds without any real data would be foolish. I voted wizard cuz i liked they way it flies even though i prefer warlocks now. Now y'all go on with your debate i was bored and felt like adding to the BS

 

[MikusRighteous]

Wizards all the way. Love the fact that you can get them in the same plastic but you can choose the firmness of them easily.

 

[Dan Ensor]

Chalky and Eraser are not distinct types of wizards, they are characteristics of one. For example, when I used Wizards and Voodoos I liked Eraser-y SS in lighter shades of blue, green, and orange.

I also haven't even taken you to task on the fact that, let's face it, if you're going to bash Innova for QC then you must also bash Gateway. I've had SS marked gateway discs harder than Mediums and Softs that were SSS after one tree hit.

In reality Gateway makes 3-ish main types, Evo HPP, Organic, and SureGrip which is the S through SSSSS discs.

R-woods are common CFR molds. Also yes, JK and KC feel very different. I'm not trying to flame you, but you start posting that you don't know much about aviars and challengers, then bash them for not having variety, then further ask if their variety "really" varies.


Putt with what you like, more power to ya I'm not trying to change your mind, like I said I used to as well. I'm just saying don't bash what you don't know, because you're spreading bad intel here.

I've already discussed the differences between S and SSS. I also never "bashed innova's QC".

You don't see the difference between S, Chalky, and ER? S is grippy, Chalky is smooth, ER is velvety. Very different, and they all catch different parts of the chains better/worse.

I don't know much about Aviars (don't think I said I don't know much about Challengers), but I have been disc shopping before. There's usually a stack of 20 Aviars from the same run that all feel the same. And it's not hard to go to the Innova website and see that beaded aviars are only in production in Star and Pro.

R-wood is common? I tried to find one to buy online, and came up empty. I didn't try exceptionally hard, but I can find an Eraser Wizard right now. Or an Evo, or SSS, or anything else.

I'm not saying there isn't a variety of Aviars out there. I'm saying I can't find and buy the variety of Aviars that I can Wizards.

 

[dekdo]

kc pro seems to slick on putters imo