The Twitch of the Hips

[RoDeO]

Go and wstch that video Sidewinder posted. In the video he advocates a complete lateral shift with no rotation. Even at release he is advocating you bring your rear leg behind your front leg which would actually cause opposite rotation. Then after release, somehow your momentum causes you to rotate back the other way? That's just bad advice. It's completely opposite of what McBeth and Sexton were teaching.

 

[SaROCaM]

Go and wstch that video Sidewinder posted. In the video he advocates a complete lateral shift with no rotation. Even at release he is advocating you bring your rear leg behind your front leg which would actually cause opposite rotation. Then after release, somehow your momentum causes you to rotate back the other way? That's just bad advice. It's completely opposite of what McBeth and Sexton were teaching.

It is a drill to exaggerate the motion in order to correct a common issue. He's not saying that's exactly how to throw, it is just to get a feel for the correction to make for that particular issue.

Same with the McBeth and Sexton video you posted. What they are saying is 1) don't swing too early and 2) don't open up the hips too early. They are using the exaggerated hip motion to drive the point home about building from the ground up.

When you more fully understand what is going on with the throw you'll see what they are talking about. Until then it can be confusing and appear like they are conflicting. They aren't. They are speaking to different things.

 

[RoDeO]

It is a drill to exaggerate the motion in order to correct a common issue. He's not saying that's exactly how to throw, it is just to get a feel for the correction to make for that particular issue.

Same with the McBeth and Sexton video you posted. What they are saying is 1) don't swing too early and 2) don't open up the hips too early. They are using the exaggerated hip motion to drive the point home about building from the ground up.

When you more fully understand what is going on with the throw you'll see what they are talking about. Until then it can be confusing and appear like they are conflicting. They aren't. They are speaking to different things.

They are teaching opposite motions. Mcbeth and Sexton actually nail it very well. That other video is just bad advice.

 

[seedlings]

Go and wstch that video Sidewinder posted. In the video he advocates a complete lateral shift with no rotation. Even at release he is advocating you bring your rear leg behind your front leg which would actually cause opposite rotation. Then after release, somehow your momentum causes you to rotate back the other way? That's just bad advice. It's completely opposite of what McBeth and Sexton were teaching.

Similar advice to Paul and Nate saying not to drag your left foot, while they seem to drag their left foot. There's a sense where you do and a sense where you don't. In the drag the foot, the left foot stops on the ground, or slightly off the ground at the brace, and then drags through. Descriptions of intangible athletic movements.

 

[sidewinder22]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHy227OYGP0&t=17m56s

 

[seedlings]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHy227OYGP0&t=17m56s

That is such a helpful video. I've watched it a dozen times.

 

[dreadlock86]

pretty sure this thread has already fulfilled all the requirements for a typical RoDeO thread.

now that people who know what they are talking about have corrected the record, can this thread die please?

 

[RoDeO]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHy227OYGP0&t=17m56s

More bad advice. According to that video you yourself have horrible mechanics.
https://youtu.be/ok26o-xSVRA
(BTW I actually think you have pretty good mechanics, so don't listen to them guys)

 

[sidewinder22]

More bad advice. According to that video you yourself have horrible mechanics.
https://youtu.be/ok26o-xSVRA
(BTW I actually think you have pretty good mechanics, so don't listen to them guys)

It's in there like Prego.

 

[RoDeO]

It's in there like Prego.

Yep, they are opening their hips as they pull the disc into their power pocket. I think its a case again of a pro giving information about how they think a person should throw but yet the best don't really throw that way.

BTW, you dont throw like either of those guys. Nothing wrong with that, just saying...

 

[sidewinder22]

Yep, they are opening their hips as they pull the disc into their power pocket. I think its a case again of a pro giving information about how they think a person should throw but yet the best don't really throw that way.

BTW, you dont throw like either of those guys. Nothing wrong with that, just saying...

You throw like them?

 

[RoDeO]

You throw like them?

No, I actually throw more like you.

 

[sidewinder22]

"I'm gonna rock the hips back, and whip the hips forward timed with the arm."
"You can see I had pretty fast motion whenever I came back to forward and the hips came thru really fast."

 

[twistedraven]

Another thing I'm noticing is that it appears almost counterintuitive to our philosophy but the acceleration of the disc begins at reachback and not at the power pocket.

Not really. All you're really doing is guiding the disc into the power pocket to really accelerate it once in the pocket. You're not accelerating it as hard as you can from the peak of the reachback, because your arm will already be tense and tired and not loose enough to give it the most amount velocity at the release point.

Here's my crude drawing comparing the two:

 

[RoDeO]

Not really. All you're really doing is guiding the disc into the power pocket to really accelerate it once in the pocket. You're not accelerating it as hard as you can from the peak of the reachback, because your arm will already be tense and tired and not loose enough to give it the most amount velocity at the release point.

Here's my crude drawing comparing the two:

Aye.

 

[RandyC]

So every professional player says do not spin the hips. Everyone here who throws far says do not spin the hips. You are lacking in distance and say that spinning the hips is the key and your only argument behind this theory is that people who throw far are actually completely unaware what their bodies are doing. I mean wouldnt there be atleast one who would know the difference?

 

[RoDeO]

So every professional player says do not spin the hips. Everyone here who throws far says do not spin the hips. You are lacking in distance and say that spinning the hips is the key and your only argument behind this theory is that people who throw far are actually completely unaware what their bodies are doing. I mean wouldnt there be atleast one who would know the difference?

You have to rotate the hips to throw the disc. Every professional rotates their hips in throwing the disc. That's not an area of debate. The area of debate is when you begin to rotate the hips. You are arguing against Paul and Nate if you say not to rotate the hips or that the power to throw doesn't come from the legs up which include the rotation of the hips.

Now, as to my lacking in distance- let me ask this- how far should a 47 year old who started 3 months ago be throwing? If you are making that claim of my lacking distance in relation to when I started and my age then please show me what someone my age who started 3 months ago should be throwing.

 

[ru4por]

You have to rotate the hips to throw the disc. Every professional rotates their hips in throwing the disc. That's not an area of debate. The area of debate is when you begin to rotate the hips. You are arguing against Paul and Nate if you say not to rotate the hips or that the power to throw doesn't come from the legs up which include the rotation of the hips.

Now, as to my lacking in distance- let me ask this- how far should a 47 year old who started 3 months ago be throwing? If you are making that claim of my lacking distance in relation to when I started and my age then please show me what someone my age who started 3 months ago should be throwing.

I feel this is part of the noob trap. Really many things that can be seen in the throws of McBeth, KJ, Heimberg....don't really translate to the noob or rec player. Don't get me wrong, there are always a set of mechanics....SW is very good at providing information for use along this lines. But, professional, high level, disc golfers have different goals and play different courses.

I cannot tell you how many times I "discovered" more distance in a flex line. Only to learn something new that translated into more distance, but I then move back to a hyzer line to learn and use it. Lo and behold, back to the turnover flex....only to learn to stop rounding....

Each plateau seem like I had it ALL figured out. But, really I was very slowly teaching myself basic mechanics to build on. Building a foundation for years of safe play. The drills and videos, many post here, are designed to build that foundation. They do not translate in to the ability to throw a putter 500 ft. They are not designed to retro fit your noob form to mimic the Conrad run up, KJ putt.

 

[RoDeO]

I feel this is part of the noob trap. Really many things that can be seen in the throws of McBeth, KJ, Heimberg....don't really translate to the noob or rec player. Don't get me wrong, there are always a set of mechanics....SW is very good at providing information for use along this lines. But, professional, high level, disc golfers have different goals and play different courses.

I cannot tell you how many times I "discovered" more distance in a flex line. Only to learn something new that translated into more distance, but I then move back to a hyzer line to learn and use it. Lo and behold, back to the turnover flex....only to learn to stop rounding....

Each plateau seem like I had it ALL figured out. But, really I was very slowly teaching myself basic mechanics to build on. Building a foundation for years of safe play. The drills and videos, many post here, are designed to build that foundation. They do not translate in to the ability to throw a putter 500 ft. They are not designed to retro fit your noob form to mimic the Conrad run up, KJ putt.

Not sure what you mean by the noob trap. I don't see myself in a trap. I feel like the number 1 thing right now for more distance in myself is conditioning muscles to fire better and faster. The mechanic tweaks will add a little bit more. Understanding how the disc is propelled is 90% of the mystery. I feel I know that. Now, getting consistency and building upon that foundation is all that's left.

 

[RandyC]

You have to rotate the hips to throw the disc. Every professional rotates their hips in throwing the disc. That's not an area of debate. The area of debate is when you begin to rotate the hips. You are arguing against Paul and Nate if you say not to rotate the hips or that the power to throw doesn't come from the legs up which include the rotation of the hips.

Now, as to my lacking in distance- let me ask this- how far should a 47 year old who started 3 months ago be throwing? If you are making that claim of my lacking distance in relation to when I started and my age then please show me what someone my age who started 3 months ago should be throwing.

Should have probably worded that better not lack of distance but knowledge. Yes hips do rotate but do you consciously rotate them is a different animal. Just a thought process here if you were on a snowboard the way you are describing the throw and the hip action would essentially be the start of a 360. Spinning the rear hip would send your left side around the front side and it´s not very efficent way to throw. I imagine if I were to throw whilst on a snowboard it would push the nose of the board down and lift the rear end.