Throwing 90m (295') - how to improve?

[SaROCaM]

0k.. did the gif capture every frame of the throw? Are you saying in my attached photo there is zero wrist bend?

Did you even watch the gif? It is right there, showing the throw from stride to follow through. It provides a complete picture of what happens going into and out of the moment captured in your attached photo.

The only wrist bend in your photo is the bend down to keep the nose down. The wrist is not coiled.

 

[sidewinder22]

Actively is the perfect word to discuss this. I think she has no idea she is doing it and I think it's exactly what you said earlier.. "It's called lag/inertia - which bends the wrist back as you accelerate the arm."

Some pros exaggerate this dramatically. After dinner I will post more examples.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rmXPRieAy8#t=8m55s

 

[SaROCaM]

Actively is the perfect word to discuss this. I think she has no idea she is doing it and I think it's exactly what you said earlier.. "It's called lag/inertia - which bends the wrist back as you accelerate the arm."

Some pros exaggerate this dramatically. After dinner I will post more examples.

If he were curling his wrist, you wouldn't be able to see his knuckles:

He and Sexton talk about it at 3:17 here: https://youtu.be/U0gzNIRxRbY?t=3m17s

Furthermore, if there are other big form issues to fix, then talking about the wrist curl is majoring in the minors. If whatever wrist bend is necessary will happen naturally with good form without actively thinking about it, then fix the form issues that lead to that. Don't get caught up prematurely in the wrist.

 

[DiscFifty]

Remember I said when to bend the wrist was important. If you reach back and prematurely curl the wrist you're doing it wrong obviously. (Probably leads to rounding?) The pros bend their wrist (cock, curl, whatever) right before ejecting the disc out of their hands. It's completely obvious this happens. But...like I said...certain players definitely exaggerate it. Simon's bud (Casey?) in all his videos has an extreme wrist bend that just baffles me.

 

[DiscFifty]

#$%^ There's a video floating around somewhere, where the pros are talking about distance, I think it's right before teeing off in some event. Anyway..they discuss bending the wrist, Catrina is new to the idea and says something like "I already throw pretty far" lol.. trying to find it...

 

[sidewinder22]

Remember I said when to bend the wrist was important. If you reach back and prematurely curl the wrist you're doing it wrong obviously. (Probably leads to rounding?) The pros bend their wrist (cock, curl, whatever) right before ejecting the disc out of their hands. It's completely obvious this happens. But...like I said...certain players definitely exaggerate it. Simon's bud (Casey?) in all his videos has an extreme wrist bend that just baffles me.

The when doesn't really matter if the shoulder is collapsed, because the where can't happen.

Wrist flexibility varies between everyone. Different grips also change the amount of flexibility. Fan grips keep the wrist straighter, while power grips and 2 finger grips allow the wrist to flex more.

IMO the less the wrist bends, the better it is for tendon/ligament health to not get put into maximum range of motion. The wrist doesn't really generate force, it transfers force from the body to the disc. A tighter spring can load and unload more force. Force also dissipates over distance, so it is more efficient over shorter travel.

 

[Arezaki]

Nice to see a discussion in the thread.

I think about having my hand on the outside of the disc. Previously, I had an extreme curl from the reach back, but after watching Sextons clinic a while ago linked to above, I stopped doing that.

Question about hugging myself: to counter this, should I reach back with my arm more to the side? Been working on it, but it may not be good enough yet. For me, it seems counterintuitive to be able to keep the elbow joint above 90 degrees when I have to shift the weight to the front foot leading with my shoulder, while the arm should be lagged behind. But can this be fixed with a wider reach back or is it something else?

And to counter the high shoulder, I believe I just have to practice and counsiously have it relaxed? I can really feel the lats muscles firing when my shoulder is low. I have to miss a lot of power by having it high in the throw. But I think that I unconsciously lift my shoulder to lift the elbow during the swing. Many people would probaly lift their shoulder if you tell them to lift the elbow. I really had no idea I did this before recently.

DiscFifty: Cool that you think I should be able to throw further with my form. Maybe it's a sign of an upcoming breakthrough. Shifting my weight before the swing have fixed a lot of how my throw looks. But maybe this breakthrough is haltered by the shoulder and the hugging.

 

[Arezaki]

More about the elbow that I did not manage to edit in due to the 5 min thing:

Look at this video of Feldberg demonstrating how to shift the weight to the front foot, the guys arm is tucked to his chest and it is clearly not above 90 degrees: https://youtu.be/3sxw8ix0CYs?t=1655 . This have to be wrong? So he should be reaching back more to the side?

 

[sidewinder22]

Got to turn your rear leg back out and glide behind unimpeded, instead of stepping pigeon toed and crossing yourself up and restricting your backswing.

 

[sidewinder22]

More about the elbow that I did not manage to edit in due to the 5 min thing:

Look at this video of Feldberg demonstrating how to shift the weight to the front foot, the guys arm is tucked to his chest and it is clearly not above 90 degrees: https://youtu.be/3sxw8ix0CYs?t=1655 . This have to be wrong? So he should be reaching back more to the side?

Bad demo. The guy's whole front side ground up is open, so he would have to "reach out" more to the left, or turn his whole front side further back.

 

[DiscFifty]

I'll end my contribution to this thread by saying this.. I'm near 60, out of shape, have a terrible x-step due to a ruptured Achilles and bad knees, but I can stand still throw 300ft all day long now, which is something I couldn't do 2 years ago. Definitely not due to weight shift. 100% due to researching wrist bend/coil and how it applies to the snap of the disc.

The technical advice SW22 is giving is awesome and I personally have learned ALOT from his posts. I've seen people with good form who can't throw 300ft. I've had users on this forum disagree by saying it's hard to impossible for a person with good form to not be able to throw 300ft. I disagree by saying players are mocking the pros (thanks to slow mo video), in almost a dance like fashion so while they look good on video, there are some basic things not happening. To my eyes..the op here has zero snap on his disc. Once he corrects that, I think he will instantly push 330-350. Now to get to 400 and beyond...no doubt...SW22's advice will get you there.

DiscFifty: Cool that you think I should be able to throw further with my form. Maybe it's a sign of an upcoming breakthrough.

PM once you're pushing 350, I'd be curious to know your thoughts on what you think improved to get you there. Good luck!

 

[Arezaki]

Stop hugging

New video. My only focus was to stop hugging myself. Ignore everything else. My elbow got much more towards the target when comparing to all my other shots. Can't say I felt much more power to the shots, but the form was worse in other ways, like horse stance rear leg and poor weight shift. Could not manage to get the shoulders lower. Any help here? As seen in the video, I practice not hugging myself by holding my shoulder back with the other arm. Think this is helping, but are there any suggestions for other exercises?

The 97m hole mentioned earlier actually was 100m (328') measured with a range finder, so that's about the farthest I can throw. Have been throwing about that more consistently, but have not managed to find a breakthrough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIQ8iUwIdBk

 

[sidewinder22]

Right shoulder is swinging back and forth over, instead of under.


Rear foot is too backward to make a forward off it.

 

[Arezaki]

Right shoulder is swinging back and forth over, instead of under.

So, if I understand this correctly, I should be tilted more forward, giving my arm/shoulder space to SWING (and really not throw in the sense I am doing now)?

Did some exercises inside, swinging my arm while tilted forward and I can feel the easiness of the speed. I really think this is the most broken link of my throw. I have a tendency to lean back, stopping the motion/rounding, making me throw anhyzers. Now I just need to figure out how to "throw" like this without the disc coming out on an extreme hyzer. Have to go practice again.

Thanks again, SW!

As for the rear leg, thinking about being on my toes helps for this. It's just annoying that my rear leg keeps pointing backward, but I simply could not correct it while focusing on the rounding.

 

[Arezaki]

Improvement

Been focusing on a forward tilt, trying to swing the disc, and the Hogan power move. Filmed myself yesterday, but there is still many things to work with so no upload. Still need to work with the forward tilt and the swing of the arm. Nevertheless, it is improving. The bracing and the balance on the front foot looks better than before. Even if the form is not looking clean on video, I have been throwing farther lately than ever before. Been reaching about 110m (360') several times, throwing OB long on the 100m hole and nearly reaching a 113m hole. Have never imagined that I could possible throw farther than 100m, but I have a much better understanding now of how to do it. Think I can reach 120m sooner or later with my current knowledge, and the goal for next year should be the 120m and 400 feet milestone.

Have only been playing regularly for about a year now. Me and my buddy had a goal of throwing 100m this year, which I have reached. I told him about my latest insights just some days ago, and he has also gained distance. He is just throwing standstills, but they fly way farther than my standstills, throwing about 95m (311') today.

 

[Arezaki]

Hey I'm on a stream

Hi! Planned to post a new video when the snow was gone, but it is still here. But, something cool happened. Today was the first weekly tournament arranged by my local disc golf club, and some guy actually streamed it on Twitch. Thought I could leave a link here. In the video below, I am throwing on a 120m hole, but I have measured the basket to be about 110m (360') on a straight line from the tee. My disc landed about 7m from the basket, almost pin high. You can change the speed of the video by pressing <,> and <.>. Technically, I struggle with the same things, but if you see anything new, feel free to comment.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/983567566?t=00h00m45s

A fairly pro dude was throwing after me, and his routine is interesting. See the link below. A combination between the one leg drill and the door frame drill perhaps? Standing on the front leg, initiating the throw with the lower body. I need to work on that. Any comments on the routine?

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/983567566?t=00h01m58s

 

[Arezaki]

Another question. I am planning to film myself and to some side-by-side comparisons with a pro. Who should I choose? I have been thinking about Aderhold or McBeth, since their form is so clean. Or maybe Lizotte.

 

[sidewinder22]

Looks good on the front side. You are a bit over-turned backward from the rear foot up, and leaving your rear side behind going into plant.

Seems like you have gone too far extreme from your original issue of pigeon toed rear foot and need to find the middle ground so you can still plantar flex the rear foot.

Left arm is dragging behind your back, need to engage the core muscles and left arm to help shift everything forward (and helps rotation).

Swim Move:
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124523

Address & Finish Position:
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134167

 

[Arezaki]

Thanks for the reply!

But if I would listen to you before that throw, I would go 20m too far, so it was all part of the plan :thmbup:

No, just kidding. You are absolutely right. Thanks for pointing it out. I have practiced the swim move in the living room, but not incorporated it in a real throw. Watching the pros, they do the swim move very early in the throw. During the plant or right after, preparing the swing. Have to practice that. The GIF in the thread shows it clearly.

As for my rear foot, the stance in the video is my normal stance. The pigeon toe thing was an overcompensation I did once in one of the earlier videos. Think I get the rear foot pointing so much backward because of the hop. I do this automatically. I am considering converting to a run-up without the hop, or more of a walk-up. I think that makes it easier for me to be on my toes.

My finishing position may not be top tier either. Nice tips in the first post. I usually aim from the front side of the tee, but I do not do a wide swing.

 

[Arezaki]

Update september 2021

Hi!

It's time for an update.

My form is still quite similar, but I am throwing about 110m consistently whenever I want. I have not been practicing as much as I have wanted, because I have prioritizing playing. Been playing some tournaments and have been doing well. My PDGA rating is now 896 (started just above 800 this season). My two best rounds are 949 and 952 rated. My putting is very decent when I am in the zone, and has saved me a lot. Besides throwing more precisely, of course, I think throwing further will increase my rating so I can throw slower discs.

See the video of me below. I have a question about a long-time struggle I am uncertain of. It looks like that I turn a little too early so that the disc doesn't get in the power pocket. I throw more or less from my left arm instead of my right pec. Is this observation correct? Any tips to correct this? I noticed also that my hand is not on the outside of the disc. One more thing to work on.

https://youtu.be/FHe2C7NS8VQ

I think the focus of this throw was the left arm being tucked in. My rear foot is still pointing too much backward, because I turn my hips too early. This problem has been chronic and I have apparently a hard time correcting it.