[Innova] Thunderbird

[slowplastic]

I have been very hit or miss with my Wraiths lately and have decided that they are too fast for me. So I am thinking of switching to the Thundy, but I think it may push the Teebird out of my bag especially since I can get Pro Thunderbirds. What is is everyone's opinion on this? Should I be looking at a different disc?

Wraiths are definitely longer than Thunderbird and a bit easier to see turn. Decently controllable too, but they are a distance driver.

Thunderbird is like a long stable-overstable Teebird, and the fade is more continual/sweeping with glide rather than driving left or hooking at the end as a very fresh Teebird would. Similar but different, that extra rim width changes it.

I have not thrown a Pro Thunderbird, I would like to try one. That may get you more distance.

CD2 is another option for something in that speed range if you want a bit more shaping and line holding. Thunderbirds may start stable and need some power to hold straight, again I haven't tried Pro. I do not find Thunderbirds longer than straight Teebirds, but they are longer than overstable Teebirds for me.

The Thunderbird is best for someone who already has lots of power, and can use the Thunderbird to hold lines and ignore wind with their power...basically as a way to be pinpoint accurate within a distance range they already possess. Whereas a CD2 will give you a bit more push/forgiveness on angle while still being stable.

I don't think Thunderbirds wake up and laser out there until they are thrown 330+. They can be useful for shorter arms than that, but more as an easy to control hyzer disc that isn't super overstable, but is still overstable.

 

[Twmccoy]

Wraiths are definitely longer than Thunderbird and a bit easier to see turn. Decently controllable too, but they are a distance driver.

Thunderbird is like a long stable-overstable Teebird, and the fade is more continual/sweeping with glide rather than driving left or hooking at the end as a very fresh Teebird would. Similar but different, that extra rim width changes it.

I have not thrown a Pro Thunderbird, I would like to try one. That may get you more distance.

CD2 is another option for something in that speed range if you want a bit more shaping and line holding. Thunderbirds may start stable and need some power to hold straight, again I haven't tried Pro. I do not find Thunderbirds longer than straight Teebirds, but they are longer than overstable Teebirds for me.

The Thunderbird is best for someone who already has lots of power, and can use the Thunderbird to hold lines and ignore wind with their power...basically as a way to be pinpoint accurate within a distance range they already possess. Whereas a CD2 will give you a bit more push/forgiveness on angle while still being stable.

I don't think Thunderbirds wake up and laser out there until they are thrown 330+. They can be useful for shorter arms than that, but more as an easy to control hyzer disc that isn't super overstable, but is still overstable.

I agree. I throw my champ Thunderbird about 400', and even at that distance it has no high speed turn. It will, however, hold a flat line for a long time before gradually fading. It doesn't have a sharp/severe fade like a Firebird or XCal. I think I like the Thunderbird so much because it absorbs all the power I give it without getting weird or flippy. Its also deceptively long, considering the disc isn't really flexing out and turning. I've found the Thunderbird to be perfect for 400'ish holes where accuracy is necessary. It gets a little more distance than a Teebird for me.

Honestly, I really don't think a Thunderbird would be beneficial to anyone who doesn't throw at least 350' consistently. The disc is made to be thrown hard. You won't see the glide unless you're able to flatten it out (which isn't overly easy).

 

[SD86]

I have been very hit or miss with my Wraiths lately and have decided that they are too fast for me. So I am thinking of switching to the Thundy, but I think it may push the Teebird out of my bag especially since I can get Pro Thunderbirds. What is is everyone's opinion on this? Should I be looking at a different disc?

All I'll say is to give it a try and see what happens. There's no law saying you can't keep the Teebird in your bag no matter what the Thunderbird does.

Pro Thunderbirds are awesome discs, and worth trying in their own right.

 

[Brockness Monster]

Wraiths are definitely longer than Thunderbird and a bit easier to see turn. Decently controllable too, but they are a distance driver.

Thunderbird is like a long stable-overstable Teebird, and the fade is more continual/sweeping with glide rather than driving left or hooking at the end as a very fresh Teebird would. Similar but different, that extra rim width changes it.

I have not thrown a Pro Thunderbird, I would like to try one. That may get you more distance.

CD2 is another option for something in that speed range if you want a bit more shaping and line holding. Thunderbirds may start stable and need some power to hold straight, again I haven't tried Pro. I do not find Thunderbirds longer than straight Teebirds, but they are longer than overstable Teebirds for me.

The Thunderbird is best for someone who already has lots of power, and can use the Thunderbird to hold lines and ignore wind with their power...basically as a way to be pinpoint accurate within a distance range they already possess. Whereas a CD2 will give you a bit more push/forgiveness on angle while still being stable.

I don't think Thunderbirds wake up and laser out there until they are thrown 330+. They can be useful for shorter arms than that, but more as an easy to control hyzer disc that isn't super overstable, but is still overstable.

I agree. I throw my champ Thunderbird about 400', and even at that distance it has no high speed turn. It will, however, hold a flat line for a long time before gradually fading. It doesn't have a sharp/severe fade like a Firebird or XCal. I think I like the Thunderbird so much because it absorbs all the power I give it without getting weird or flippy. Its also deceptively long, considering the disc isn't really flexing out and turning. I've found the Thunderbird to be perfect for 400'ish holes where accuracy is necessary. It gets a little more distance than a Teebird for me.

Honestly, I really don't think a Thunderbird would be beneficial to anyone who doesn't throw at least 350' consistently. The disc is made to be thrown hard. You won't see the glide unless you're able to flatten it out (which isn't overly easy).

I am pushing Teebirds out to 320-330' consistently, but Wraiths are only getting about 10 extra feet on most throws, 40 on good ones. I might have the power to handle the Thunderbird, but I am not certain. The reason I was looking at the Thunderbird is because according to Joe's universal flight chart, the Thunderbird requires the same amount of power as the Teebird. The CD2 is right there next to it. The confusing thing is that the OLF and OLS both require more power according to the chart. Now I know well enough not to base anything off of one piece of information which is why I am asking you guys, but so far the chart hasn't steered me wrong. Maybe I just stick with Teebirds for a while longer and try the Wraiths out again later.

I would like to hear a couple more thoughts.

 

[Jay Dub]

Noodle arm here, I bag a Tbird, Thunderbird and Firebird. I'm starting my switch to Pro Thunderbirds from G* Thunderbirds because they seem perfect for me, I also just bought a Tbird3 after trying one and love it. But I plan on making these three molds a main stay in my bag.
I'm using all at 166-168g.

 

[icebat]

I am pushing Teebirds out to 320-330' consistently, but Wraiths are only getting about 10 extra feet on most throws, 40 on good ones. I might have the power to handle the Thunderbird, but I am not certain. The reason I was looking at the Thunderbird is because according to Joe's universal flight chart, the Thunderbird requires the same amount of power as the Teebird. The CD2 is right there next to it. The confusing thing is that the OLF and OLS both require more power according to the chart. Now I know well enough not to base anything off of one piece of information which is why I am asking you guys, but so far the chart hasn't steered me wrong. Maybe I just stick with Teebirds for a while longer and try the Wraiths out again later.

I would like to hear a couple more thoughts.

If you're only getting wraiths an extra 10 feet past your teebirds, sounds like you may have more of an issue with getting the nose up slightly.

I don't throw teebirds, but I do throw Thunderbirds, CD2's and Wraiths. Wraiths are definitely the longest for me. If you're looking for distance, I would check out a pro thunderbird, but if you'r looking for premium plastic, I don't think you're going to gain any real distance throwing Champ or Star thunder birds over wraiths. I think someone else said this, but IMO wraiths are a little easier to get some turn out of and can shape more lines. If you want something that flies like a beat in premium thunderbird out of the box, I would check out a cd2. Or maybe try to find a used g star thunderbird.

 

[SD86]

I am pushing Teebirds out to 320-330' consistently, but Wraiths are only getting about 10 extra feet on most throws, 40 on good ones. I might have the power to handle the Thunderbird, but I am not certain. The reason I was looking at the Thunderbird is because according to Joe's universal flight chart, the Thunderbird requires the same amount of power as the Teebird. The CD2 is right there next to it. The confusing thing is that the OLF and OLS both require more power according to the chart. Now I know well enough not to base anything off of one piece of information which is why I am asking you guys, but so far the chart hasn't steered me wrong. Maybe I just stick with Teebirds for a while longer and try the Wraiths out again later.

I would like to hear a couple more thoughts.

Sounds like you might have issues throwing the discs nose-up. Check out Danny Lindahl's YouTube discs on that subject. Also, take a Nova to the range and throw it to help work out those issues.

 

[Brockness Monster]

ugh, back to the practice field I guess. Thanks for the info and advice everyone

 

[SaROCaM]

At 330' Teebird power, a seasoned Pro Thunderbird can show a little turn (based on my experience) and be a workhorse driver. I was pushing my Champ Teebirds to 350' this past summer and still like Pro Thunderbirds for a controllable distance driver. They are similar to how Pro Destroyers compare to Star; will season faster, usually more glide, easier to get some turn and more distance. If Champ/Star Thunderbirds are just a little too much, try it out in Pro plastic for a little while.

 

[slowplastic]

I am pushing Teebirds out to 320-330' consistently, but Wraiths are only getting about 10 extra feet on most throws, 40 on good ones. I might have the power to handle the Thunderbird, but I am not certain. The reason I was looking at the Thunderbird is because according to Joe's universal flight chart, the Thunderbird requires the same amount of power as the Teebird. The CD2 is right there next to it. The confusing thing is that the OLF and OLS both require more power according to the chart. Now I know well enough not to base anything off of one piece of information which is why I am asking you guys, but so far the chart hasn't steered me wrong. Maybe I just stick with Teebirds for a while longer and try the Wraiths out again later.

I would like to hear a couple more thoughts.

I agree with the advice/experience everyone has given too.

I would make sure you're throwing nose down...320-330' Teebird range is nice, but I would expect a Wraith to be 350ish then unless it is pretty fresh and has that hooking new disc fade. Make sure your alignment is nose down of your forearm: https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/resources/articles/gripittoripit.shtml

I have not thrown OLF/OLS so I can't compare. I also have not thrown Pro Thunderbird although that really seems like a good choice based on my experience with plastic stabilities and what everyone is saying.

If your Teebird is a pretty straight one, and it's 325ish, you will not throw a star or champ Thunderbird farther unless it is very beat or you use a shallow flex line. The Thunderbird has more late flight integrity than a not super beefy Teebird...those are almost mini Firebirds to me...so the Thunderbird is very good at shallow flex lines. You'll see pro's like McBeth bag both Teebirds and Thunderbirds, Teebirds for very straight shots and holding anhyzers that pan to flat. Whereas Thunderbird is for power straight/sweep hyzer shots, and mini flex shots.

I think at your distance you'd be happier with a CD2. I've only thrown a handful in S-line but they flew -0.5/2 and were still wind resistant...flew like a very beat in Thunderbird and had good glide. Again these discs still have that speed 9 fade and Teebirds when beat in are renowned for going as far as anyone can throw, so don't expect ridiculously more distance....just similar distance with more stability. You have to go flippy speed 9 like Roadrunner/Sidewinder to get a lot more distance than a mild Teebird IMO.

Actually if you want a distance driver and you're discing down in speed then those options might be pretty good for you as a distance disc, but they definitely don't have the integrity/wind resistance of a Thunderbird or CD2.

 

[7ontheline]

ugh, back to the practice field I guess. Thanks for the info and advice everyone

Practice. boom the correct answer

If you were hoping the Wraith would add max distance and you're only getting 10 feet passed your Teebird, discing down to a slower speed is the right call. Faster discs are harder to control and often mask form flaws.

If you're still looking for max D you could try the OLF and build up to an Orc and soon you'll be throwing that Wraith... after a lot of practice:|

 

[Twmccoy]

I don't think one should ever really use the Thunderbird as a max distance driver. Especially if you're only throwing 330'. At that distance I don't think a Thunderbird will show you anything a Teebird won't. I think a Thunderbird at 330' would be almost frustratingly overstable and clunky.

The Thunderbird is all about precision for me. I can get it out to 400' reliably, but I don't throw it for the distance. I throw it because I know I can bear down hard on it and the disc will end up where I want it. It plows through wind effectively and is immune to being overpowered.

If you want to pick up some easy yardage (past 330') it might be time to look at something understable. You might give the star Mystere a try. Its understable and glidey without being overly fast or wide rimmed. Very beginner friendly and a disc that is easily capable of top-shelf distance. A Mystere is the same speed as a Wraith, but noticeably more understable and with far better glide. It could very easily turn your 330' Wraith distance into 360'.

 

[broomerang]

I don't think one should ever really use the Thunderbird as a max distance driver. Especially if you're only throwing 330'. At that distance I don't think a Thunderbird will show you anything a Teebird won't. I think a Thunderbird at 330' would be almost frustratingly overstable and clunky.

The Thunderbird is all about precision for me. I can get it out to 400' reliably, but I don't throw it for the distance. I throw it because I know I can bear down hard on it and the disc will end up where I want it. It plows through wind effectively and is immune to being overpowered.

If you want to pick up some easy yardage (past 330') it might be time to look at something understable. You might give the star Mystere a try. Its understable and glidey without being overly fast or wide rimmed. Very beginner friendly and a disc that is easily capable of top-shelf distance. A Mystere is the same speed as a Wraith, but noticeably more understable and with far better glide. It could very easily turn your 330' Wraith distance into 360'.

CD2 is a friendly thundy as well. Same speed but way more glide, less OS, and very easy to learn. It won't mask many form flaws either.

 

[kjr63]

I don't think one should ever really use the Thunderbird as a max distance driver. Especially if you're only throwing 330'. At that distance I don't think a Thunderbird will show you anything a Teebird won't. I think a Thunderbird at 330' would be almost frustratingly overstable and clunky.

I mostly agree, except when it's a beaten DX Thunderbird that flies like a Valkyrie. Then it is a fine max. distance driver.

 

[armiller]

I-Dye Champion Thunderbird Factory Second

339 currently available. Interesting that Paul's name seems almost entirely obstructed by the double stamp. That must be entirely coincidental! **sarcasm alert!** How much was Paul making per disc on these? Whatever monetary value it was, I bet it just turned into zero.

I've always been a fan of dyed discs, and I like heavy champ Thunderbirds. If it was less than $12, I'd be tempted to go for a sight-unseen disc or two.

(same on Roc3s, btw:
I-Dye Champion Roc3 Factory Second)

 

[Twmccoy]

I-Dye Champion Thunderbird Factory Second

339 currently available. Interesting that Paul's name seems almost entirely obstructed by the double stamp. That must be entirely coincidental! **sarcasm alert!** How much was Paul making per disc on these? Whatever monetary value it was, I bet it just turned into zero.

I've always been a fan of dyed discs, and I like heavy champ Thunderbirds. If it was less than $12, I'd be tempted to go for a sight-unseen disc or two.

(same on Roc3s, btw:
I-Dye Champion Roc3 Factory Second)

I think your theory is correct. They aren't going to "accidentally" mess up that many dyed discs with double stamps. They're essentially writing Paul out of existence.

 

[wims]

Nothing wrong with that IMO. In fact, using Pauls name to promote their products might even be illegal, depending on their previous contract

 

[dysmike]

I think your theory is correct. They aren't going to "accidentally" mess up that many dyed discs with double stamps. They're essentially writing Paul out of existence.

It's not like it's personal. It's business.

 

[Myke566]

Anyone throwing Metal Flake Thunderbirds? I just picked one up and it's far less OS than a typical Champ. Reminded me of a CD2. Anyone else throwing them and have the same findings?

 

[DenverTiger13]

Anyone throwing Metal Flake Thunderbirds? I just picked one up and it's far less OS than a typical Champ. Reminded me of a CD2. Anyone else throwing them and have the same findings?

I just picked an x-out metal flake and it's basically a new champ Thunderbird for me. It's 167 with good dome so that might add some stability from what you're seeing. Really straight with +330 foot power with a solid fade. I think the champ/ metal flake are the closest to the 9,5,0,2 numbers. My worked in champ Thunderbird reminds me of what I've heard CD2s are like in flight. Slight turn (-.5) to fade (2). Star Thunderbirds bring the stability compared to champ/ metal flake.