[Innova] Thunderbird

[slowplastic]

My go to gummy champ, likely from 3x era is gone. Flew -0.5/2 for me and still resisted a surprising amount of wind.

I do not like the older run stars that were extremely beefy for this slot, as well as a couple more recent stiff champs I have tried that had an earlier sweeping fade. Basically I like the beat in champ flight, or Gstar flight...but don't want Gstar because I like the ground action of champ/star for this slot.

Are there newer champs that are still mild in flight? The new stars sound good too if they are less stable. Basically are champ/star interchangeable if I just look for low PLH and likely more gummy? I do not want to end up with a beefcake, I bag a Felon and Firebird for more OS shots and don't need the overlap. But I also want to throw these full power into moderate wind so I don't want Pro.

 

[jjmiller]

My go to gummy champ, likely from 3x era is gone. Flew -0.5/2 for me and still resisted a surprising amount of wind.

I do not like the older run stars that were extremely beefy for this slot, as well as a couple more recent stiff champs I have tried that had an earlier sweeping fade. Basically I like the beat in champ flight, or Gstar flight...but don't want Gstar because I like the ground action of champ/star for this slot.

Which reminds me- I really need to get a replacement for my old, mellow, Star Firebird...

Are there newer champs that are still mild in flight? The new stars sound good too if they are less stable. Basically are champ/star interchangeable if I just look for low PLH and likely more gummy? I do not want to end up with a beefcake, I bag a Felon and Firebird for more OS shots and don't need the overlap. But I also want to throw these full power into moderate wind so I don't want Pro.

Might be fun to try a Vulture...?

Otherwise, I can only comment on one Thunderbird- a Star with an old Halloween stamp. I bought it new(old stock at a local shop) and it's always flown about like a slightly beat SPD. Too bad, because I was hoping it would be beefy based on what I've read here.

 

[ILUVSMGS18]

8

My go to gummy champ, likely from 3x era is gone. Flew -0.5/2 for me and still resisted a surprising amount of wind.

I do not like the older run stars that were extremely beefy for this slot, as well as a couple more recent stiff champs I have tried that had an earlier sweeping fade. Basically I like the beat in champ flight, or Gstar flight...but don't want Gstar because I like the ground action of champ/star for this slot.

Are there newer champs that are still mild in flight? The new stars sound good too if they are less stable. Basically are champ/star interchangeable if I just look for low PLH and likely more gummy? I do not want to end up with a beefcake, I bag a Felon and Firebird for more OS shots and don't need the overlap. But I also want to throw these full power into moderate wind so I don't want Pro.

I had some 4x that were a little beefier than what you are describing, but with a bit of seasoning they should match. My current 166 that I got in a recent trade, flies about what you are describing, at about 375'. I'd say that a frsh Champ should be a safe bet, if not let me know.

 

[slowplastic]

8

I had some 4x that were a little beefier than what you are describing, but with a bit of seasoning they should match. My current 166 that I got in a recent trade, flies about what you are describing, at about 375'. I'd say that a frsh Champ should be a safe bet, if not let me know.

Yeah the champs seem to be pretty consistent, the beefy ones I tried you could tell felt different in the hand. I bet the store will have a stack to thumb through and find a familiar feeling one.

As far as trying a Vulture or another mold, I've just got on so well with the Thunderbird and I already throw a Teebird/Firebird combo, so I'll stick to the same. Although it doesn't give me great distance BH, it's consistent, and for FH it is incredibly controlled to 350' for me. For such a boring disc to throw at my power level, it is invaluable in so many situations on the course. It's boring because you know where it will land after the first 30' out of your hand, in a good way.

 

[SaROCaM]

My go to gummy champ, likely from 3x era is gone. Flew -0.5/2 for me and still resisted a surprising amount of wind.

I do not like the older run stars that were extremely beefy for this slot, as well as a couple more recent stiff champs I have tried that had an earlier sweeping fade. Basically I like the beat in champ flight, or Gstar flight...but don't want Gstar because I like the ground action of champ/star for this slot.

Are there newer champs that are still mild in flight? The new stars sound good too if they are less stable. Basically are champ/star interchangeable if I just look for low PLH and likely more gummy? I do not want to end up with a beefcake, I bag a Felon and Firebird for more OS shots and don't need the overlap. But I also want to throw these full power into moderate wind so I don't want Pro.

The penned 4x Champs that I have are like that (I have a dozen or so, from 167-175g but mostly around 170g.) New they are just reliable straight to mild fade like you would expect, and then they season to have the slightest bit of turn but still dependable in wind (though I am currently throwing only around 360' max so YMMV.) -0.5/2 sounds about right. Haven't tried any of the embossed to see if they are any different.

 

[Sydex]

I haven't noticed any difference in flight between my 4x penned and embossed Champs.

3x and GStar are the best IMO.

 

[pjhayes7]

3x and GStar are the best IMO.

Elaborate please.

 

[Stable]

My love of the Thunderbird is pure. Yet, I've reached an odd stage with my workhorse Star (max weight). For a long while it could handle lots of anhyzer on a FH. Now it only likes to be thrown flat or with hyzer. If I give it any significant anhyzer it just cut rolls but if I release flat it shows plenty of stability. Still a go-to disc in my bag but isn't showing the versatility of a worked in Wraith.

 

[SaROCaM]

My love of the Thunderbird is pure. Yet, I've reached an odd stage with my workhorse Star (max weight). For a long while it could handle lots of anhyzer on a FH. Now it only likes to be thrown flat or with hyzer. If I give it any significant anhyzer it just cut rolls but if I release flat it shows plenty of stability. Still a go-to disc in my bag but isn't showing the versatility of a worked in Wraith.

Interesting. I don't have much experience with Star Thunderbirds but have thrown a lot of Champ and Pro, all of which have carved nice FH flex shots. Maybe I haven't beat any of them in to that point yet (though my most beat one can hold a turn almost like a Leopard.) How beat is your Star?

 

[smarkquart]

I cannot keep long stories short because it involves loving G-PDs but the ones I really liked are hard to find and I would have to be replacing them every year or every other year because of wear and tear. I tried replacing them with G-Star TeeBird3s because they were a little easier to find, but while I seasoned two exactly where I wanted them, they were my everyday practice ones and the ones I had set aside for my tournament bag were still meathooks and did not seem to be seasoning in at all.

So, I decided to give the Explorer and Thunderbird another try; the Explorer obviously being closer to the TeeBirds and the Thunderbird being closer to the PD.

I gave Explorers a honest try when they first came out as SE Burst, but they lacked glide against the T3 and you could only keep them straight at full power. I gave up on them, but everyone kept saying the Optos were better; more glide and a mellower throw. So I picked up several to try out this month. I am still disappointed with them because they only remain straight at full power. I can get more distance out of them than the SE, but full power often means a higher percentage chance of griplock issues.

I am putting all of this here because I am also giving the Thunderbird another chance. I was fully on board with them when they first came out. I still have a beautifully seasoned proto-star Champ sitting in my basement. However, I am afraid of losing it, so I kept searching for back-ups. The closest I found were black Champion Air Force stamped ones. I loved their flight, but they were a handful to look for if they were not perfectly in the fairway. I then tried the Stars when they first came out because they came in the bright neon yellow. Absolutely meathooks, and they almost completely turned me off the mold.

The other day, for the fun of it, I traded away a FAF Champ Firebird I received as a tournament disc for a new Champ Thunderbird. After a couple of throws, I was already liking it more than the Explorer, and they definitely seemed a lot mellower than I remembered. The bonus is that they fly almost exactly like my G-PDs. The grip is not the same, but the level of comfort that I will hit my line is there. Tonight at league, I can average anywhere from par to -8, it all depends on the drives, but I average closer to -3 to -6 depending on the current pin placements. You can save par from almost anywhere on the course, but you need tight lines, and not always distance, to be getting birdies. Cash is almost always at -5. Excepting one misfire, my new neon yellow Air Force stamped Champ Thunderbird drove with repeatable perfection, netting five of my seven birdies, and even hitting cage on the final hole.

I say I am liking the new Champions, and I hope they stay that way because I see them winning out over my Explorers and filling a huge gap between my FDs and Enforcers.

 

[Sydex]

Elaborate please.

3x seem to have more glide, around -.5 turn and for whatever reason seem easier to toss than the 4x. All the ones I've held are softer too. If you read around you'll see these sentiments echoed. I think I've posted about it in this thread earlier. 4x are for whatever reason stiffer, have less glide and a it more HSS. 4x are easier for forehand. I'll say 3x are 9/5/-.5/2 and 4x anre 9/4/0/2.5 This is enough to where if im tossing ~360' with a respectable headwind I'll throw a 4x over a 3x. Rough example based on a hole at my local course.

Gstars that I have, all penned, are true to the numbers but beat into the sweetspot of 9/5/-.5/2 and stay. Also, have to love how consistent Gstars feel is. I live in Texas where the temperature is routinley over 100F with high humidity, so it's nice knowing the plastic will feel the same all year. Champ and current Star get too mushy in the heat and seem to get slippery.

 

[slowplastic]

My go to gummy champ, likely from 3x era is gone. Flew -0.5/2 for me and still resisted a surprising amount of wind.

I do not like the older run stars that were extremely beefy for this slot, as well as a couple more recent stiff champs I have tried that had an earlier sweeping fade. Basically I like the beat in champ flight, or Gstar flight...but don't want Gstar because I like the ground action of champ/star for this slot.

Are there newer champs that are still mild in flight? The new stars sound good too if they are less stable. Basically are champ/star interchangeable if I just look for low PLH and likely more gummy? I do not want to end up with a beefcake, I bag a Felon and Firebird for more OS shots and don't need the overlap. But I also want to throw these full power into moderate wind so I don't want Pro.

Ended up thumbing through a dozen Thunderbirds and picked up a Luster Champ holiday/snowflake one like these below. Didn't realize they were from 2016, but it makes sense as the PLH was the same as the only 3x champ they had, all the 4x were ever so slightly stiffer and higher. I bet they would have been very similar. The pro, Gstar and Luster holiday all had similar wing height. The only super outlier was a star Thunderbird that was 1mm higher than all the others, no thanks for what I want. So really it seems like a consistent disc, just the really grippy Luster plastic won.

I know someone was asking about these earlier in the thread. It has good speed and stability, seems like any fresh champ Thundy as 9/4.5/0/3 initially, after some teepad "practice shots" it is 9/5/0/2.5. It definitely fades halfway to 2/3 into the flight but sweeps and glides, and skips because the fade kicks in early. As with my last Thundy early in the wear cycle, they are good for high placement sweep hyzers and hard forehands until they beat in. I don't like them for tunnel shots until they have a touch of turn, otherwise I am likely to throw them into the ground to keep the fade at bay. I trust it will pick up another 20' as the HSS reduces a bit so the fade delays, but this thing should fight wind like crazy while not being a brick like the older run Stars I have tried.

 

[ponder]

Just field tested my new thunderbird. It is a TFR x out color glow thunderbird. I expected it to be extremely overstable like most color glow discs. It is slightly domier with a lower PLH then my 3x champion thunderbird. At the field it had almost the same stability as the 3x champ which is probably 6.5/10. Has anyone else experienced the same with color glow thunderbirds?

 

[racer93]

Any CG model is usually less stable.

 

[Jay Dub]

I tried and then traded for a used pro Thunderbird 166g. Love how that thing flew for me. I've been trying to not buy any new discs but if I lose this one, or see another similar to it, I might have to change that.

 

[Stable]

I tried and then traded for a used pro Thunderbird 166g. Love how that thing flew for me. I've been trying to not buy any new discs but if I lose this one, or see another similar to it, I might have to change that.

Spoken like a true addict. I'm hoping to unload some plastic in a garage sale this Saturday just so I won't feel bad about adding more to my collection later.

 

[slowplastic]

I tried and then traded for a used pro Thunderbird 166g. Love how that thing flew for me. I've been trying to not buy any new discs but if I lose this one, or see another similar to it, I might have to change that.

I really want to try one, they feel great for plastic/shape. Have you thrown a CD2 or Viking or something like that to compare it to? I imagine they'd have a bit of turn and easier distance than Champ.

 

[Jay Dub]

Spoken like a true addict. I'm hoping to unload some plastic in a garage sale this Saturday just so I won't feel bad about adding more to my collection later.

:thmbup:
I've been selling off enough of mine the past year to buy a new mattress so I don't feel as bad buying one or two.

I really want to try one, they feel great for plastic/shape. Have you thrown a CD2 or Viking or something like that to compare it to? I imagine they'd have a bit of turn and easier distance than Champ.

No I haven't tried either of those but your description is how it flew for me. I used to love beating in DX Firebirds to have them turn over. This reminded me of those with a little less fade at the end but still the same trust that it will fade at the end.

 

[Grippenripp]

:thmbup:
I've been selling off enough of mine the past year to buy a new mattress so I don't feel as bad buying one or two.


No I haven't tried either of those but your description is how it flew for me. I used to love beating in DX Firebirds to have them turn over. This reminded me of those with a little less fade at the end but still the same trust that it will fade at the end.

That thing flew well for you. I had it in My hands a few months back and it wasn't up for grabs at the time. Also I didn't jive with it quite he way you did. OLF for life!!

 

[Brockness Monster]

I have been very hit or miss with my Wraiths lately and have decided that they are too fast for me. So I am thinking of switching to the Thundy, but I think it may push the Teebird out of my bag especially since I can get Pro Thunderbirds. What is is everyone's opinion on this? Should I be looking at a different disc?