Tournament footage preferences

[JC17393]

Commentary is dangerous. Commentary is not easy. Don't American Idol yourself (you know, those people who think they can sing then try out and get laughed off the stage...). That's the best advice I could give. If you do decide to go this route with an amateur broadcaster...please please please don't wing it. Go through the cut, write a script, make notes, do multiple takes. Don't do it in a half hour in your basement while the washer and dryer are running.

Couldn't have said it better myself. If you're adding commentary to an edited piece, absolutely have notes on what to say even if you don't script every word. Keep it short and to the point as much as possible, and avoid being overly repetitive.

I think that's the crux of the big complaints about live commentary (i.e. the USDGC comments earlier). They're more or less flying blind on live coverage, seeing it at the same time we see it, and not having any opportunity to think about or prepare what they will say. That kind of situation is ripe for mistakes, repetition and incoherent rambling. There's really no excuse for that on an edited piece.

My advice is go light on commentary (add details that aren't apparent, don't narrate actions that are obvious on screen), leave natural sound in as much as possible, and utilize on-screen graphics to identify players, hole #s, distances, scores, etc. The players on screen are the "stars" of the show, don't overshadow them.

 

[BirdieMachine]

1. Show hole number and distance
2. Just leave audio from the play
3. Show scores after each hole
4. DONT show short TAP IN putts
5. Thanks for creating it!!!

 

[DiscJunkie]

1. Show hole number and distance
2. Just leave audio from the play
3. Show scores after each hole
4. DONT show short TAP IN putts
5. Thanks for creating it!!!

Another Winner!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What he said....

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Real audio trumps music, alwaysssssss me boy.

 

[DiscChainBasket18]

To Zoom or not to Zoom. That is the question!

Be careful with the zoom button. This is one area where I see so many film makers ruin a good shot. The zoom button is a great option but use it wisely.
Common misconception: You must use the zoom button on every shot! False! Take your finger off the button from time to time to break up the movement some. Zooming in on your subject makes it more difficult to keep the camera steady & all the extra movement & shaking makes your film looks like a Blair Witch project!
Some basic tips:
Dont zoom too much! Nothing makes me more nauseous than having the video zooming in & out on every single shot! :wall: Leave the button alone once in a while & take in the overall surrounding view!
Dont zoom too quick! Please let me see the flight of the disc (a novel concept I know ). Show patience & wait for the disc to come out of the throwers hand before you try to zoom in on the disc/basket/etc.
Dont zoom too close! Again, stay back a ways so I can see the flight of the disc!
Some videos never use the zoom button & this is not good either. Use it to follow the flight of the disc. Dont get too close or stay back so far away that you cant see anything past the tee pad!

 

[geoloseth]

Thanks for all the input so far. It sounds like VERY limited commentary and more (but limited) play by play is what people prefer. I agree with JC and that's why I pointed out the USDGC coverage. It became very repetitive in the commentary side. If they had switched to a more play calling nature it would have added more to the broadcast .

JT: I love going through the SpinTV website. Between what you guys have starting doing and Bobby (CoolDaddySlickBreeze) has made over the years it's made me want to get out and film more of the events in my area.

 

[geoloseth]

The zooming isn't an issue. The camera I used off of the tee is Nikon D600. I found from experience that it's better to leave it alone. Mainly, it has no zoom button. I have to do the zoom and the focus manually to get any consistency and even then it's near impossible. That's why I had someone down hole with a Canon Vixia to catch the landing. I even told him the same thing after I saw his practice video the day before. Stay wide as much as possible, use the monopod to keep steady, and stick with the left/right panning more than up and down. I was surprised at how quick he caught on and just how good of quality that cheap camcorder produced.

 

[MurderMike41370]

Use music.
If you add commentary, make sure it's funny.
Get some of the pros to participate in some on film shenanigans.
That is all.

 

[tdschrock1]

Short intro at the beginning.
Hole info for each hole
show each shot (except drop-in puts)
Show running score and score of previous hole
Little/no commentary is easiest to pull off.

Bonus:
Use text to mention OB throws/mandos etc
Get some funny audio from around the teebox
Multiple camera angles are nice
1 'best shot of the round' type replay (ESPN style)

 

[geoloseth]

I did stick around to film the "ace in the oaks" after the round. Everything is 220' or less and there are mobs of 10-15 people on each hole. As much as I wanted to do humorous commentary for the actual round footage I think I'll stick with the play calling and limited talking. For the Ace in the Oaks though I was thinking along the lines of "Wipeout" dialog. Which, in my opinion, has some of the best commentary on tv today.

 

[PerpetualNewbie]

Lots of good thoughts here, most of which mirror my own.

First, because it can't be said enough, "no music"...

One thing I would add because I haven't seen it mentioned... if you're going to show scores after holing out (which you should) AND you're going to show a graphic of the layout for the upcoming hole (which you also should), please DON'T put them on the same screen... instead, show the scores and round standings for a few seconds, then fade over to the graphic for the next hole. One tournament video I watched tried to have the graphic on the left and scores on the right and I found it impossible to concentrate on either and they didn't leave them up on-screen for nearly long enough. Of course you can just use the pause button on the video player, but that is annoying to do after every hole.

Regarding commentary, I really like the way the young guys from the "lcgm8" youtube channel do theirs, nice and casual but they're obviously players and enthusiasts and it feels really natural. I've watched some tournament coverage (Disc Golf Monthly vids maybe...?) that seemed pretty dry and boring, more like commentators on TV broadcasts of ball golf tournaments, which don't click with me.

 

[filobedo]

I know this is sometimes difficult, but I wish more coverage noted what disc each player is throwing on shots regardless if it is a driver, midrange or putter. I watch a lot of the Golf Channel and PGA tour events and normally their is a commentator on the course with the players who states what club they are using. This is much easier in traditional golf because the loft of each club or head size is easier to determine what club is being used.

 

[DG_Before_Breakfast]

Commentary rules. The best right now IMO is Ian from Central Coast Disc Golf (CCDG). The Euros have him doing tournaments they have filmed over there now on lcgm8.

Plus ideally you do the following:

- Before the round starts, or even that part if its multipart video, show each of the players with their names listed, ideally during their intro on the course. Also show their current score in the tournament.
- Before each hole, show:
*the hole layout on the map.
*a shot from behind the tee with the placement of the Pin drawn in, so you can see where they are aiming
* The score on the last hole, and the current overall score.
- When each player comes up to take a shot, show the Disc they are using. This is hard to get from the players, but makes a huge different to the people watching.
- When they are putting, indicate what score they are going for (eagle, birdie, par, bogey, 2x bogey, etc.). When it goes in, indicate what they got.

To me, the best stuff out there right now is CCDG. Check out their coverage of the 2013 Master's Cup for a great example of all this stuff in action. Other people might be better cameramen, but the whole package from CCDG is fun to watch.

 

[JTacoma03]

Thanks for all the input so far. It sounds like VERY limited commentary and more (but limited) play by play is what people prefer. I agree with JC and that's why I pointed out the USDGC coverage. It became very repetitive in the commentary side. If they had switched to a more play calling nature it would have added more to the broadcast .

JT: I love going through the SpinTV website. Between what you guys have starting doing and Bobby (CoolDaddySlickBreeze) has made over the years it's made me want to get out and film more of the events in my area.

Very cool man. If I can help or answer any questions, etc. please feel free to PM me. It's all about pushing the envelope and making our sports media presence better! Good luck!

 

[geoloseth]

Watched some of the 2013 Masters Cup video. I like the paused frame so they can highlight the hole location. I'll try to figure something like that. I know what McCabe was throwing for most of his shots, however most of the other guys on the lead card had pretty mixed bags. It was interesting seeing some shots on the first day, seeing the results, hearing what people speculated they threw, and then finally asking them what it was and being completely off. Like McBeth throwing the 330 uphill shot OB. Everyone was saying it was a roc...teebird. I didn't even think to ask them what discs were what on the final round (mostly trying to stay invisible since 1st place was worth $1,100).

I think the CCDG guys do a little more conversation/talking that I could pull off. Right now though I've got to convert all of the MOV files to MP4 so I can start putting them in order and seeing what I have.

 

[Hyzer Ale]

Although I enjoy good commentary I like the videos where the graphics are the commentary. Putting at the beginning of hole a picture of the map with par and current scores. Then showing what disc is being thrown if possible. Putting up birdie, par, bogey etc. when a player holes out and then an updated score at the end. If you do commentary I like it to be minimal so that we can still hear the sounds of the game.

 

[JC17393]

I know this is sometimes difficult, but I wish more coverage noted what disc each player is throwing on shots regardless if it is a driver, midrange or putter. I watch a lot of the Golf Channel and PGA tour events and normally their is a commentator on the course with the players who states what club they are using. This is much easier in traditional golf because the loft of each club or head size is easier to determine what club is being used.

Like you say, in general, identifying a club is far easier than identifying a disc. But something to keep in mind is that when they identify the club, they are only identifying the type (3-wood, 5-iron, loft wedge, etc), which tend to be fairly universal in every player's bag. What they rarely do is specify the brand or model of the club, though brand can be inferred based on the player's sponsorship (i.e. a Nike player is hitting with Nike brand clubs).

It probably isn't unreasonable to expect a disc golf announcer to be able to distinguish between a distance driver and a midrange in a similar manner, and I've heard plenty of commentary that does do that, including on live DGP broadcasts. Identifying a specific model or even plastic type is something different entirely.

 

[DG_Before_Breakfast]

Like you say, in general, identifying a club is far easier than identifying a disc. But something to keep in mind is that when they identify the club, they are only identifying the type (3-wood, 5-iron, loft wedge, etc), which tend to be fairly universal in every player's bag. What they rarely do is specify the brand or model of the club, though brand can be inferred based on the player's sponsorship (i.e. a Nike player is hitting with Nike brand clubs).

It probably isn't unreasonable to expect a disc golf announcer to be able to distinguish between a distance driver and a midrange in a similar manner, and I've heard plenty of commentary that does do that, including on live DGP broadcasts. Identifying a specific model or even plastic type is something different entirely.

Right, they don't say "Macgregor Tourney Mashie, 4th run, with 3.5 years of wear". They just say Wedge.

Whereas I'm sure some Disc Golf geeks would like to know all that:

"Midrange, Innova Roc, Rancho, 11x KC, Pro plastic, with 3 years of wear"

OP: Glad you checked out the CCDG guys at the Master's Cup. I thought that was some very entertaining coverage of DG.

 

[geoloseth]

Right, they don't say "Macgregor Tourney Mashie, 4th run, with 3.5 years of wear". They just say Wedge.

Whereas I'm sure some Disc Golf geeks would like to know all that:

"Midrange, Innova Roc, Rancho, 11x KC, Pro plastic, with 3 years of wear"

OP: Glad you checked out the CCDG guys at the Master's Cup. I thought that was some very entertaining coverage of DG.

Yes the CCDG guys are pretty entertaining. For my personal taste it's a little more 'banter' focused than I'll have in my video, that's why it's good to be the king.

I'll try to identify the disc types as best as I can. After following these guys around all day I started to notice that they were throwing the same handful of discs repeatedly.

 

[Guurn]

Commentary rules. The best right now IMO is Ian from Central Coast Disc Golf (CCDG). The Euros have him doing tournaments they have filmed over there now on lcgm8.

Plus ideally you do the following:

- Before the round starts, or even that part if its multipart video, show each of the players with their names listed, ideally during their intro on the course. Also show their current score in the tournament.
- Before each hole, show:
*the hole layout on the map.
*a shot from behind the tee with the placement of the Pin drawn in, so you can see where they are aiming
* The score on the last hole, and the current overall score.
- When each player comes up to take a shot, show the Disc they are using. This is hard to get from the players, but makes a huge different to the people watching.
- When they are putting, indicate what score they are going for (eagle, birdie, par, bogey, 2x bogey, etc.). When it goes in, indicate what they got.

To me, the best stuff out there right now is CCDG. Check out their coverage of the 2013 Master's Cup for a great example of all this stuff in action. Other people might be better cameramen, but the whole package from CCDG is fun to watch.

This