What should happen with rear leg?

[charmees]

When looking at my form videos, I see that I am pushing from my rear leg and it gets fully extended, and weight goes to front leg and then it just kind of hangs there loose.

The leg just flies around after push




When I am looking an pros videos, the rear leg after pushoff moves towards the target also half a feet. I feel like something very important that I am missing is causing this. Any suggestions?

For example Simon, the foot moves towards the target alot



Does this make sense or I am imagining things?

 

[UhhNegative]

Watch how Simon's back leg heel never even touches the ground. He's pushing off his toes/instep, moving his weight targetward. Watch how your back foot comes off the ground. You are extending your knee instead of pushing the gas pedal.

 

[sidewinder22]

Yeah I think you answered it in the other thread, you are still stuck on the rear foot at the plant and not shifting your balance/lower spine forward into the plant.

 

[charmees]

I just looked through bunch of pro driving videos and I am not 100% sure, does the rear knee have to fully extend or not? From this simon video, the knee is not fully extended, but it is practice throw. From lead card video, it is hard to tell.




After closely examining their knees I discovered something. Even before they plant their front right foot and during plant, their left knee moves inwards alot. Does this happen by itself or I should be thinking of doing it? From my video, as we talked, it does not move inwards and just flies around.

 

[sidewinder22]

I just looked through bunch of pro driving videos and I am not 100% sure, does the rear knee have to fully extend or not? From this simon video, the knee is not fully extended, but it is practice throw. From lead card video, it is hard to tell.

After closely examining their knees I discovered something. Even before they plant their front right foot and during plant, their left knee moves inwards alot. Does this happen by itself or I should be thinking of doing it? From my video, as we talked, it does not move inwards and just flies around.

You need to squat into the rear leg like the Swivel Chair / put yourself in position to leverage yourself forward(Power of Posture - Internal Hip Rotation/Load) and drive off the foot/leg/butt muscle, with bent knee still, but with some knee extension. If you fully extend the rear knee you have no choice but to tip over and can't shift forward from the lower body/ground/downstairs.

 

[charmees]

You need to squat into the rear leg like the Swivel Chair / put yourself in position to leverage yourself forward(Power of Posture - Internal Hip Rotation/Load) and drive off the foot/leg/butt muscle, with bent knee still, but with some knee extension. If you fully extend the rear knee you have no choice but to tip over and can't shift forward from the lower body/ground/downstairs.

When I have 200 pounds on my shoulders, my core and legs are super loaded and flexed. Do I understand correctly that this is what I should feel during my xstep and plant?

What about upper body, I know that people say keeping the hand loose is best, but how stiff should be reachback and upper body compared to legs?

 

[sidewinder22]

When I have 200 pounds on my shoulders, my core and legs are super loaded and flexed. Do I understand correctly that this is what I should feel during my xstep and plant?

What about upper body, I know that people say keeping the hand loose is best, but how stiff should be reachback and upper body compared to legs?

When I'm in the x-step/hop everything is loose and relaxed and upright, easy to pivot my body/turn centered and shift my spine/balance from one foot to the other. If I all the sudden had 200lbs put on my shoulders I would still be nice and stacked in posture to be able to hold it, but there's pressure in the x-step, it's just a good ready position to be in.

Tension starts building in the rear leg and ab/core muscles during the stride/backswing after landing on the rear foot to keep everything nice and balanced and upright and not collapsing into the ground as gravity and centripetal force from the backswing start pulling your upper body around like a hammer thrower.

The tension deepens through the core muscles in the transition forward with the arm still fairly loose(door frame drill). Once shifted balance to the front foot, the arm and upper body muscles only start loading(like springs being compressed) into the power pocket and then fire/spring after the lower arm has begun being whipped outward/forward providing leverage/firm lever through the body at the hit.

Excellent info throughout this vid hopefully clears up some stuff about shifting the lower spine forward without spending the lower body torque and giving yourself more space to swing through:

 

[charmees]

I went out and first time fully tried to do the feldy hip to the sky and I feel this is exactly what I was missing.

This is the first drive I did today and it was the same bad, upper body going over the top, weight is not braced behind front leg.



This is one of best ones I got for brace. When comparing these two, I can see that my upper body is much more bracer behind front leg and I felt it in the throw also. Also I know I forgot other technique tips, such as still my back foot is on heel etc.


Does the weight brace look better or I am just seeing things? Thanks!!!

 

[charmees]

One thing I noticed, this hip to the sky makes me throw the disc to the sky, maybe it gets better when I get used to the movement.

 

[sidewinder22]

Somewhat better. You need stride more lateral, dynamically stacked upright, and inline to the target line, so you can better load/turn back inside your rear foot more. (Power of Posture) Your feet are going opposite directions planting the front too leftward and the rear foot moving forward rightward spreading your knees apart and your balance between your front heel and rear toes and can't move your balance toward your front toes. Your rear arm is also getting slung around you instead of it being leveraged forward inside your posture. (Swivel Chair and One Leg)

 

[charmees]

I recorded drives comparing me and a local pro, that can throw 450ft+. He has some funky technique, but I cant help to notice how core body and hips work totally differently for us. I am being very stiff and after front plant hips move a little and upper body does most of the work. For him, hips work during whole throw.

 

[charmees]

He also plants quite leftwards and does different things, but I think main thing what is different and where distance comes, is making lower and upper body work together. I just can not put my finger on it how to make my body do it.

 

[sidewinder22]

You are making a backward tipping over move off the rear foot/leg, meanwhile your friend is making a positive move and squatting lower into the rear leg and pushing off the rear foot/leg shifting the lower spine forward without spending rear side torque as Mike Maves demonstrates in the Secret in the Dirt video above and Swivel Chair. You need to squat/load more into your rear leg/foot during the stride and maintain some more flex in the rear knee. You fully extend your rear knee into wide horsestance and have no choice but to tip over. Your friend is also getting off his rear foot quicker - shifting off the rear foot into the plant of the front foot, meanwhile you are late getting off your rear foot while the front is planted and trying to push through the plant/brace so there's no shift.

 

[charmees]

Why are you posting in this thread?

Better backswing, but still too late getting off your rear foot and not really internally rotating/loading in your rear hip.

Oops, I was reading different threads and lots of tabs were open and made a mistake. :wall:

I have some olympic lifting background and to get maximum power I know that I must fully extend my body, my hips, knees, full plantarflexion. So I have bad habit of pushing knees straight.

With that said, if I must come off my rear foot sooner but can not fully extend my knee, does this mean I must do an aggressive push and just lift/drag my rear foot off the ground manually?

I think I just do not have fundamental understanding of order of things. Would it be true to get my rear foot off the ground before starting the pull from full reachback?
In general would it be true that the order is

1. Get off the rear foot
2. Start pull
3. Turn hips
4. Finish pull

 

[sidewinder22]

With that said, if I must come off my rear foot sooner but can not fully extend my knee, does this mean I must do an aggressive push and just lift/drag my rear foot off the ground manually?

See post #3 above - dragging the rear foot - it's not something I'm thinking about it just happens with momentum, it doesn't feel like it's dragging either, it's really a pivot/release of torque. It's more like a pitcher's move, but planting closed - not striding as far.

I think I just do not have fundamental understanding of order of things. Would it be true to get my rear foot off the ground before starting the pull from full reachback?

Absolutely. The pull really has nothing to do with the rear foot(rear foot is just adding momentum before swinging). Not a fan of the word pull, it's a swing like a pendulum and is more so dictated by your front foot/body momentum like a ball on a string. If you swing your arm/disc around over your head on one leg or feet together, you can pump your front leg/s and accelerate the centripetal force/tension through your arm and time your pump to aim the disc out to your target with very little arm involvement.

In general would it be true that the order is

1. Get off the rear foot
2. Start pull
3. Turn hips
4. Finish pull

1. Get off the rear foot.
2. Shift balance/weight onto the front foot.
3. Pelvis turns 30-45 degrees via bracing and clearing the front hip/front leg extension/pump.
4. Arm swings along the upper body for the ride and whips the disc.
5. Finish completely balanced on the front foot.

Note how when standing on a swing set, you stand/pump up to accelerate at the bottom of the swing.

 

[Jimbat]

This image really shows the similarity with a trebuchet system. The swing is really just turning that whole contraption on its side.

 

[charmees]

I was just casually working on it and I think something clicked. This is with towel, but I really felt my legs and body doing work. Sorry that legs are cut half way. It is best to watch it with youtube slow motion...




Weird thing is that, when I went out and tried it with disc, I absolutely failed to get this movement going on. Just same old, same old. Maybe the muscle memory is stronger with disc. I will try it more in next days.

 

[Jimbat]

I really struggle to get off my back foot as well. I feel like we are both stuck on the same thing, so I have been monitoring your thread closely. I too am a big fan of olympic lifting. If it helps, I find it helps as a mental anecdote to think of staying on my back foot as long as I can, turning my weight forward, until the plant just explosively happens. This plant is timed so that I have fully come up on the toe of the rear foot by the time the weight pressure hits my instep, which then of course is what causes the front hip to clear powerfully. Just like in a snatch, the idea is to "wait". Only by waiting can you maximize your economy of motion. Rush to be balanced on the plant leg less, and instead spend some more time balanced on the rear leg.

Kinda like a stopping the bad habit of starting the 2nd pull of a clean early before you have got the weight in position to jump it up.

Also, don't sit your weight quite so far back on your heels I would say. I believe you are getting the same "spin out" effect I do judging by your balance.

These are the things I have been thinking as I have been throwing lately.

 

[sidewinder22]

I was just casually working on it and I think something clicked. This is with towel, but I really felt my legs and body doing work. Sorry that legs are cut half way. It is best to watch it with youtube slow motion...



Weird thing is that, when I went out and tried it with disc, I absolutely failed to get this movement going on. Just same old, same old. Maybe the muscle memory is stronger with disc. I will try it more in next days.

Use a sledgehammer, not a towel. There is a disconnection between your arm and body/weight that you are missing in the transition. You are really trying to spin your hips too much/too fast instead of focusing on smooth leverage through them. Your rear arm is also being flung around behind you and not helping you leverage yourself forward.

 

[charmees]

I was looking at these drives, eagle and mcbeth specifically and how do they get to this position with rear leg?

3 ideas come to mind, but I am not sure. I have tried latter 2, but for me the rear leg just keeps floating there and it does not happen automatically.

1. Spin your rear knee/femur inwards.
2. Spin your hips and it happens automatically.
3. Just push straight forward with your rear leg and it happens automatically.

Also I noticed that his rear heel is on the ground, but that could be related that his is throwing anhyzer.

From here

to