What should happen with rear leg?

[charmees]

Will get that hand near my body next time for sure.

Meanwhile I was walking to work and was alone on the street and did some casual runups and I felt something. Could this be true?

Run up on toes, you keep your weight back, when your front foot touches ground, you are on your full reachback, still both feet on toes. Now this is where my theory comes in. Now you push off your rear foot and shift weight forward, but your front heel does not contact ground yet, there is a slight delay, your rear foot has already no weight on it, the heel starts to move on the ground, the discs starts to move forward, the weight shift happens, and basically when you have disc on power pocket, the weight finally in exactly the same time unleashes fully on front foot/heel, so they are synced.

So basically what is different here, is that previously I tried to smash my full weight on heel as soon as it clears from rear foot, but actually full crush happens a little later.

I remember I saw it in Mcbeths throw also at one point here. There is no more weight on rear foot, but the weight is not already in front heel, but it is still on toes.

 

[charmees]

Anyways, new update. Moved the hand closer to my body. This time got a little hop in my xstep, I think the high grass was causing it, I just not conciously tried to not get stuck there, heh.

How does it look?

 

[sidewinder22]

Better with rear arm, now do Door Frame Drills in tilted spiral posture and lead with your butt/weight and turn body/shoulder further back and arm/disc should turn back lower due to forward tilt.

 

[charmees]

My previous video was pretty good, but these were 70% of throws and on the field, so for couple of days I tried to throw more fairways and drivers with 90% on power, but I rarely feel the weight of the disc and throws are maxing around 300ft, couple hitting 330ft.

What I am thinking with my body is that, do the reachback and before the downswing push with rear foot and turn knee inwards. I talked to one local about how he is doing and he said that he is not really pushing with rear foot or turning the knee in, but it goes in by itself.

Then I started comparing myself to pros and I feel like my brace is off or I am pushing too much off my rear foot.

I put together this gif, I feel like I am going down from top or moving too much forward after plant.

I tried to compare myself with nybo and mcbeth, starting from pull reachback and forward. We all seem to move forward, but that comes logically because shoulders are opened up.

I see that their last step is much wider, but I think that will make weight shift even more difficult for me as beginner.







It is hard to say what is wrong, but I feel like something goes wrong after full reachback.

 

[charmees]

My idea is that do not pull with hand, before weigth from rear foot has gone away, but maybe I am at the moment getting all weight on front foot, then the momentum dies and then I pull with hand. This is what it seems in this video. Not sure though.

 

[sidewinder22]

I don't think you are turned deep enough into the Door Frame Drill with your chest tilted toward your knees/forward tilt a la Tilted Spiral #2. You are too upright so your shoulders/chest are more behind your heels than your toes so there's no compression into the plant/brace, your rear arm swinging out/away is also not helping with compressing into the brace/ground. Your spine actually starts reversing tilt through impact. Just look at the finish pic below, your spine is tilted away and you start falling backward away from the target and your head is not balanced/stacked over the front foot and your rear shoulder never comes through forward either over the front foot.

If you do the Door Frame Drill properly, when you release your hand from the frame after weightshift forward, your upper body should get sling shot forward like you see me in the video still in Part 1 with rear shoulder past front foot. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvGudQYfjD8#t=5m

Centered shoulder rotation - bring rear shoulder forward over front foot:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvvF6eW-by8&t=389s

 

[charmees]

On the first pic, I think I am over the axis, because of short last step, they have extended the front foot out more.

I don't think you are turned deep enough into the Door Frame Drill with your chest tilted toward your knees/forward tilt a la Tilted Spiral #2.
You are too upright so your shoulders/chest are more behind your heels than your toes so there's no compression into the plant/brace.

When I bend more forward from hips, the disc goes more into hyzer. The shots you took, they are throwing disc in extreme hyzer for big S shots. At the moment I am throwing on small hyzer or flat shots. But I will try to replicate this.

If you do the Door Frame Drill properly, when you release your hand from the frame after weightshift forward, your upper body should get sling shot forward like you see me in the video still in Part 1 with rear shoulder past front foot.

I watched that, but how is the weight distributed in that video, both heels are on ground, it is hard to understand. I know it is hard to show it on video, but does the sling happen after or before the front heel goes down?

And the most important question that I have not fully understood yet, during the x-step, what is rear foot doing.

1. Is it just pushing straight through forward and internal rotation happens naturally?
2. Is it pushing forward and in the same time manually turning rear foot inside?
3. Is it not pushing really at all, and just turning the rear foot inside to get hips turning?

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

I watched that, but how is the weight distributed in that video, both heels are on ground, it is hard to understand. I know it is hard to show it on video, but does the sling happen after or before the front heel goes down?

And the most important question that I have not fully understood yet, during the x-step, what is rear foot doing.

1. Is it just pushing straight through forward and internal rotation happens naturally?
2. Is it pushing forward and in the same time manually turning rear foot inside?
3. Is it not pushing really at all, and just turning the rear foot inside to get hips turning?

Heel down initiates the disc guiding back forward.

During an x-step it will 100% depend on how much forward momentum you have. If you have a small amount, you will have to push with the back leg and you push behind you like you would in the toe drag drill.

If you have enough momentum from the initial steps of the x-step, then it's guiding and internally rotating so the hips turn fluidly.

So let me add that taking a ton of forward momentum is something that only Nikko, Eagle, and a few other power throwers do - and typically only on distance shots. They will also regularly blow clean past the brace. McBeth, Will, Koling, etc will dial down to a much slower x-step and push the hips (ala toe drag) and get a full inner rotation.

I can internally rotate much easier for my right handed hockey shots, baseball swings and things like that - than I can for my RHBH disc golf shots. Typically it'll come to a player much easier one direction than the other (just like being right handed vs left handed).

If you have a good hockey shot or baseball swing right handed, it gives you a good baseline for what it should be. When I get the inner rotation correct, it feels like my back leg is shifting forward as my shoulders are coming through culminating in a mashing point of the hit. I can get that timing down so easily hit a hockey shot, but it's taken me substantial work to develop RHBH and it's still not as good as my hockey shot shift.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

And when you do the toe drag push, the direction is best described as "pushing from behind" - and that direction of push should let the freely hanging back leg inner rotate and act as a ballast or a counterbalance to your upper body. That motion should be balanced and controlled and keep you from blowing through the brace.

 

[sidewinder22]

Right ^. I think you are asking the wrong question though, because your front leg is not doing what it should and essentially don't understand what your rear leg even does in a standstill so the x-step is kind of futile at this point.

Your plant is so weak/soft there's no/little weight behind or with it - not really Crushing the Can or Riding the Bull/Turbo Encabulator to initiate the forward swing. There's no real shift of balance/weight forward in your swing - One Leg Drill. You spin around your front foot and reverse balance backwards in the finish. Your front foot should not spin around 180 degrees, it should only pivot about 90. Your front foot spins around because your weight is too late getting into the front leg with the plant.

Avery has a short stride and fantastic footwork. The finish pics on the right side really show the difference, in the third pic notice how your rear leg is crunching up and kicking your own butt, while Avery's leg is expanded as far away as possible from the hand. His weight was all pushed into the brace, you pushed through or around the brace. See how Avery's head is stacked right over his front foot and tilted forward with braced hip. The last pic shows Avery's whole front side braced/wrapped around the brace point with all his weight smashed forward through the braced front hip so dynamically maintained upright balance on the front leg throughout the whole swing start to finish.

 

[charmees]

Avery has a short stride and fantastic footwork. The finish pics on the right side really show the difference, in the third pic notice how your rear leg is crunching up and kicking your own butt, while Avery's leg is expanded as far away as possible from the hand.

I feel like I am very close, yet so far. I have had problem with weight shift, that I am not getting all my weight on front foot. That is probably why my rear foot is crunching up against front foot. Maybe I am getting the weight too on top of front foot, not still behind it.

I am not sure how to continue now, I can try to keep my rear foot turning not so close to front foot, but I feel a little that this moves the center of weight backwards.

Also I think I am still pulling with my arm a little too soon. Sometimes when I just try to xstep slowly at home without disc, I do not pull with my arm at all, just turn the hips and the hand appears between my pecs. I am not sure but I think this is correct and I should be pulling with hand not before it is near my pecs.

 

[charmees]

I read from somewhere this:

Starting from the beginning of the last step in the "X-Step."
(1) Step and reach with front foot, leave disc in place.
(2) Allow yourself to become extended as you step forwards. When your foot lands, you should be in the "loaded reach back position."
(3)(a) (Lower Body) Begin shifting weight into your front foot as you turn your hips back to square. Be on the back toe, ready to push.
(3)(b) (Upper Body) Begin to turn your shoulders, ideally getting them square at the same time your hips get square
(4) When both hips and shoulders get square, lock them by tightening every part of your core.
(4.5) (Temporally close together) When you get square, and begin to turn, activate your back leg, push into the ground, and rapidly turn your back hip into the shot. (This starts the chain reaction)
(5) Turn your core into the shot.
(6) Release the Karate Chop, focus on keeping the target out away from your body, and extend into the "hit-point."
(7) FOLLOW THROUGH. Do not truncate the motion. Do not apply brakes. Just concentrate on getting all your energy into the hit.

From this I understand that basically I do the reachback and smoothly turn my hips and shoulders square. And only after that I should press on gas. At the moment when I am accelerating from full reachback, maybe I am doing it too early. Does this make sense?

 

[deyo7]

I'm by no means in a position to be the teacher but I feel like I was doing what you are doing at one point. Try these things:

It's hard to tell how fast you are going with slow motion video but try carrying a little more momentum into it and see if that helps. Keep it controlled and don't lose sight of mechanics but try it and see what happens. You should be able to do either a slow run up with or without much momentum (just as Hyzerunibomber detailed out) but carrying it through faster might help you get the feeling of using your legs more.

Also have you tried to throw something heavy? I think this will help get you in a better position and shift your weight because throwing something heavy won't work without proper weight shift.

And you need to get your rear arm tight. This will help you carry momentum through better and put you in position. I think it'll be a difference maker for you.

Do these and I think you're close to adding 30ft.

 

[sidewinder22]

Maybe I am getting the weight too on top of front foot, not still behind it....

I am not sure how to continue now, I can try to keep my rear foot turning not so close to front foot, but I feel a little that this moves the center of weight backwards.

I'm not entirely sure what you are saying, something got lost in translation. Feel is not always real and players feel the same thing differently sometimes. What feels weird or backwards to you - might be the feeling you need.

Also I think I am still pulling with my arm a little too soon. Sometimes when I just try to xstep slowly at home without disc, I do not pull with my arm at all, just turn the hips and the hand appears between my pecs. I am not sure but I think this is correct and I should be pulling with hand not before it is near my pecs.

Yes, arm too soon and weight too late.

 

[sidewinder22]

I read from somewhere this:
(4.5) (Temporally close together) When you get square, and begin to turn, activate your back leg, push into the ground, and rapidly turn your back hip into the shot. (This starts the chain reaction)

From this I understand that basically I do the reachback and smoothly turn my hips and shoulders square. And only after that I should press on gas. At the moment when I am accelerating from full reachback, maybe I am doing it too early. Does this make sense?

4.5 is too late to be activating the back leg and the chain reaction had already begun in 2 when the front foot plants. You should be stepping on the gas as you plant/crush the can/shift balance/weight forward.

 

[sidewinder22]

 

[charmees]

I have been looking for pro videos in slow motion and I think I know what I am doing wrong. I am still not keeping my weight back enough. When my front toe touches ground, I have moved already ~50% of weight on top of the front foot and then the weight is falling down from top and not from back to forward.

I think I should be more reaching out with my front foot, not so much moving my front foot with center of weight, as I am doing at the moment.

When front toe touches ground, there should be only 10% of weight or to be more exact, the center of weight should be so back that I would only feel 10% of weight there. And then when toe plants, I should push from rear foot forward and move all the weight in the same time.

This is just a theory yet, but I am looking for a dry day to go try it on field. What do you think?

 

[sidewinder22]

IMO you would be better served thinking about your dynamic balance vs where your weight % is. It's really weird talking or thinking about where your weight is because there are several different ways you can have certain % weight here or there and where is your weight when you go airborne? Balance is balance.

 

[charmees]

Okay, still have been raining all day long and could not get out, but I was reading an old thread https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118948 and there it says.

To sum it up ... When your back is towards the target settle your weight into the lead leg then start your downswing, that simple."

And was looking an eagle throwing, he has shoulders still back, when front heel down and rear foot is off the ground. This is extreme because he is PRO, but I think this is something we should aim for?



I have a feeling I have been turning my body before the weight has settled on front foot. Or even if it does not settle fully, I think I am starting to turn my body when toe touched ground, which is way too early. Could this be it?

 

[sidewinder22]

Correct, but I would go further and exaggerate that feeling, i.e. Door Frame Drill/Crush the Can/One Leg Drill.