When and how much arm??

[ZRS88]

First off sorry if this is on here, I've scoured and can't find anything but I may have overlooked.

My question is how much arm do I use? I know the throw is from the ground up and I have worked hard on footwork and engaging hips and core and use that to throw the disc. But I feel I'm just using that and forgetting to engage my arm to throw the disc. So does it go footwork to hips to core and then when the disc is coming into the power pocket when I clamp down and start using the arm muscles to throw the disc? If so it feels it should be my triceps that engages and pulls and the wrist locks down in the nose down angle.

What made me curious is when I was working on upshots I noticed when I did more of this when trying to throw some standstills I was able to hit the line I want and angle I was wanting. But I'm asking more for a drive and just a throw in general how much and when does the arm activate.

Thanks in advance!!

 

[sidewinder22]

Accelerate disc out from center or power zone/pocket as much as you can.

 

[Casey 1988]

First off sorry if this is on here, I've scoured and can't find anything but I may have overlooked.

My question is how much arm do I use? I know the throw is from the ground up and I have worked hard on footwork and engaging hips and core and use that to throw the disc. But I feel I'm just using that and forgetting to engage my arm to throw the disc. So does it go footwork to hips to core and then when the disc is coming into the power pocket when I clamp down and start using the arm muscles to throw the disc? If so it feels it should be my triceps that engages and pulls and the wrist locks down in the nose down angle.

What made me curious is when I was working on upshots I noticed when I did more of this when trying to throw some standstills I was able to hit the line I want and angle I was wanting. But I'm asking more for a drive and just a throw in general how much and when does the arm activate.

Thanks in advance!!

Something that I do is a standstill when a 80%+ or more standstill on a will get the distance I need for the shot. also for less too but then I might be doing more an approach shot.

 

[drk_evns]

The Power Pocket is the moment you can start applying power from your arm.

 

[Tinkles]

I feel like I go through cycles of throwing.

• Phase 1 - focus on lower body weight shift, brace, elbow high bringing disc into tuck and whipping, throwing feels effortless - throwing 340-380
• Phase 2 - get very comfortable with my back swing and rhythm, the throw feels like it starts to slow down and I can start to actively apply energy with my upper body right at the tuck accelerating out, feels like I am throwing hard - throwing 380-420
• Phase 3 - starting to focus too much on trying to throw far, get lazy with my back swing (hip/shoulder turn), open shoulder with elbow out too far, feel like I am really trying to throw hard - throwing 320-350

Then I go back to Phase 1 and kind of reset. I'm finding that the more I play, the longer Phase 2 gets but man that crash from Phase 2 to 3 is brutal. Reps and muscle memory...

 

[drk_evns]

I feel like I go through cycles of throwing.

• Phase 1 - focus on lower body weight shift, brace, elbow high bringing disc into tuck and whipping, throwing feels effortless - throwing 340-380
• Phase 2 - get very comfortable with my back swing and rhythm, the throw feels like it starts to slow down and I can start to actively apply energy with my upper body right at the tuck accelerating out, feels like I am throwing hard - throwing 380-420
• Phase 3 - starting to focus too much on trying to throw far, get lazy with my back swing (hip/shoulder turn), open shoulder with elbow out too far, feel like I am really trying to throw hard - throwing 320-350

Then I go back to Phase 1 and kind of reset. I'm finding that the more I play, the longer Phase 2 gets but man that crash from Phase 2 to 3 is brutal. Reps and muscle memory...

I've noticed over the past 2-4 years of really working on my backhand that progress comes in waves.

1. You work on a specific issue
2. you have an epiphany
3. your old muscle memory begins to work against you
4. you regress
5. you realize it
6. you fix it again (sometimes just as hard as the first time)
7. Repeat

This happens almost every time I have a major breakthrough. I'll fix something anywhere from 3-5 times this way before it just becomes natural.

And you're right. It sounds silly but those regressive times can bring on depression for sure. Especially when you've been so focused on such a small movement for so long.

The good new is the hard work pays off in the end. I had my first great looking throw on film a year or so ago. I'm just now feeling like I can throw that way consistently (winter in michigan with no field work for several months didn't help).

 

[ZRS88]

Thanks for all the insight! I definitely with you drk about fixing and regressing. Last year I was killing it near the end of July to November also March of this year. But now I feel I'm regressing and not using my arm muscles like I should. I'm definitely going to use all of this and figure it out.

I got to throw some today between the rain and I I would try to clamp down and engage arm when I felt I was coming into the power pocket. The disc started coming out later and was more to the right of where I'm use to. So I think I've had some early release issues since I would clamp down or activate the arm and accelerate through.

And you have it correct with the phases tinkles. I think I've gone into 3 trying to recapture the magic of 2, I tend to stay more in 1 and have those few zen moments as I call them in phase 2.

 

[drk_evns]

The first shot in this video is one of the few where you can actually see the power being applied at the end of the throw.

 

[Parbequeue]

I've noticed over the past 2-4 years of really working on my backhand that progress comes in waves.

1. You work on a specific issue
2. you have an epiphany
3. your old muscle memory begins to work against you
4. you regress
5. you realize it
6. you fix it again (sometimes just as hard as the first time)
7. Repeat

This happens almost every time I have a major breakthrough. I'll fix something anywhere from 3-5 times this way before it just becomes natural.

And you're right. It sounds silly but those regressive times can bring on depression for sure. Especially when you've been so focused on such a small movement for so long.

The good new is the hard work pays off in the end. I had my first great looking throw on film a year or so ago. I'm just now feeling like I can throw that way consistently (winter in michigan with no field work for several months didn't help).

Man this should be a sticky that anyone has to read before starting a form journey.

 

[azplaya25]

I've noticed over the past 2-4 years of really working on my backhand that progress comes in waves.

1. You work on a specific issue
2. you have an epiphany
3. your old muscle memory begins to work against you
4. you regress
5. you realize it
6. you fix it again (sometimes just as hard as the first time)
7. Repeat

This happens almost every time I have a major breakthrough. I'll fix something anywhere from 3-5 times this way before it just becomes natural.

And you're right. It sounds silly but those regressive times can bring on depression for sure. Especially when you've been so focused on such a small movement for so long.

The good new is the hard work pays off in the end. I had my first great looking throw on film a year or so ago. I'm just now feeling like I can throw that way consistently (winter in michigan with no field work for several months didn't help).

Man this is exactly my experience as well. I think the key to consistent progress is how quickly you can go from 4-5. The longer you spend between 4-5, the harder 6 becomes. So many times in my form journey, I've figured something out and thought I had a feel for it and decided I was finally good at disc golf and went out and played some rounds. Then after a week or so my accuracy is gone my distance is decreasing and I'm like wtf - watch my throw on film and I'm back to whatever jacked up habit I had. I guess I'd say the two things I've learned is:
Don't underestimate estimate the power of muscle memory.
Film your throws constantly.


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[Fris-beer]

Man this is exactly my experience as well. I think the key to consistent progress is how quickly you can go from 4-5. The longer you spend between 4-5, the harder 6 becomes. So many times in my form journey, I've figured something out and thought I had a feel for it and decided I was finally good at disc golf and went out and played some rounds. Then after a week or so my accuracy is gone my distance is decreasing and I'm like wtf - watch my throw on film and I'm back to whatever jacked up habit I had. I guess I'd say the two things I've learned is:
Don't underestimate estimate the power of muscle memory.
Film your throws constantly.


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Great texts in this thread. The learning process imo is something that gets way too little recognition. Once you go through that cycle of learning and regression x many times you dont have to film yourself anymore and its much easier to notice whats missing. The problem starts when you pick more than one thing at a time to focus on. It takes significantly more mental energy to get that same good feeling back when you are not sure whats missing as there are more variables.

The hard part is that pretty much any new thing will make a crappy form better and practicing gets easily derailed as you figure stuff out. The temptation to solve the whole equation is big. Currently I have like a list of 10 things that make my throw better. Some days I can handle 3-4 of them, sometimes 0. And that is mentally very hard and a roller coaster ride on the course.

 

[azplaya25]

Great texts in this thread. The learning process imo is something that gets way too little recognition. Once you go through that cycle of learning and regression x many times you dont have to film yourself anymore and its much easier to notice whats missing. The problem starts when you pick more than one thing at a time to focus on. It takes significantly more mental energy to get that same good feeling back when you are not sure whats missing as there are more variables.

The hard part is that pretty much any new thing will make a crappy form better and practicing gets easily derailed as you figure stuff out. The temptation to solve the whole equation is big. Currently I have like a list of 10 things that make my throw better. Some days I can handle 3-4 of them, sometimes 0. And that is mentally very hard and a roller coaster ride on the course.

That's a really good point as well. I think I saw a video with Danny Lindahl where he said to practice one thing over and over until it becomes a habit, before you move on to anything else. For me that has been weight transfer and throwing off my front foot. Trying to go from spinning into the hit to striding and bracing into the hit is way more difficult than one would think lol.

One other item I've learned - read this somewhere on a post I think by slow plastic. He mentioned that someone told him if you want to throw further you need to throw harder, but that is only the case if you have good form. That is another mindfck I deal with playing this sport lol. I want to get my fairways out to 350 instead of being stuck at 320, but if I try to throw hard to get that extra 30 feet, everything goes off the rails. In fact, my best results come when I slow everything down and focus on my form. The key to remember is that the peak acceleration needs to come at the last moment as you are releasing the disc, and usually when I try to throw harder, it just results in me accelerating early and my arm speed is slowing at release, which kills distance.


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[BossHawg]

my best results come when I slow everything down and focus on my form. The key to remember is that the peak acceleration needs to come at the last moment as you are releasing the disc, and usually when I try to throw harder, it just results in me accelerating early and my arm speed is slowing at release, which kills distance.

I have noticed the exact same thing. My farthest throws, by far, have come from a rather slow, controlled run up with a full reach back, a lot of acceleration from the hips first, and then, once the disc hits the power pocket, pulling through with my arm as hard as I can. It's that power pocket where you want to put all your effort into for sure. Prior to that the only time I engage my arm is at the very beginning of the pull.

For me, as soon as I get to the full reach back, I quickly engage arm for just a split second to power it into motion along with my hips, but then I relax the arm, and then really flex it hard once I hit the power pocket.

 

[sidewinder22]

He mentioned that someone told him if you want to throw further you need to throw harder, but that is only the case if you have good form. That is another mindfck I deal with playing this sport lol.

I think good form is like long toss drill in baseball. You get looser and elongate the swing from the body to throw further and the quicker you shift your center the longer your swing gets stretched or lagged back behind your center and then catapulted further ahead of braced up center at release. Kind of like a perpetually longer swing drill or door frame drill.

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

Glad to hear I'm not the only one going through the roller coaster ride.

 

[mostlynorwegian]

What drk_evn said is how I am working through improvement as well.
Old muscle memories of throwing bad, and things going awol is the :wall: to break through. It took a long time for me to get accuracy and consistency at distance, but my days of getting discs to group together at range and from a variety of discs, whether os or us and also with fh and bh is much more frequent than it has ever been.
Through consistent practice. i.e. field throwing the bomber distances I used to just wait until the last throw for to let loose on are becoming a lot more effortless and I can focus working more on the line of the disc itself, and which gap I want to utilize towards getting it to where I am actually throwing it to.
My next :wall: for distance is the 400' one. I'm not stressing about it too much, but there will be the day of :clap: and I get it. And I want it to be effortless when it happens.
Slow it down.

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

I'm doing this form rebirth thing at the age of 47. I'll never hit the kinds of distance I would be hitting if I was 25, but I am improving, so it feels worth it big time. It hasn't reached my ability to throw drivers well yet, but I added 50 feet to putters and mids so far in three months of hard work. Drivers are the next huge hurdle. Just gotta keep getting after it. The big challenge for me is to not get depressed when I struggle with the drivers. Lots of times I've just left them in the house and gone out there with putters again to regain the feel. That usually helps me get back on track. But, yeah, I'm way better already than I was last November and it's a great feeling.

It's also rubbing off on my 10-year-old son. Yesterday he threw some putters 180 feet. Man, am I jealous of his raw athletic ability and just being immersed in this at his age. I would've had to have been born next to Oak Grove Park for this to be true for me (I was his age when the first Eagle was introduced...). No drills or anything, just picked it up on his own. He's beaten me on six holes in casual rounds so far this year! And I make him earn that too. He wears those holes like a badge. If anybody knows Vicksburg Recreation Area near Kalamazoo, the other day he tied me on holes #1 and #12 from the shorts, carding fours on both of them. Toughest holes on the course, 468' and 489' respectfully with lots of O.B. and you're punished big time off the fairway. Yeah, I like his future in this game. Him getting real good real fast for his age has been better for my spirits than any of my own little progress.

 

[azplaya25]

Nice man! Best thing we can do for the sport is to teach our kids to play.


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[Central Scrutinizer]

Just got back from the practice field. Not only did he join me, but his two neighborhood friends too, all of them 10 or 11. Discs flying everywhere. So much fun!

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

But back to the original subject of the thread, I applied what Sidewinder and drk evans said about applying arm at the power pocket today and it helped greatly. That was a big focus of mine today and I had a great practice session.