Who all should talk a penalty here, if anyone?

[ru4por]

I have never been comfortable with "gimmes". I am all for speed of play exceptions (putt out if you are close and ready, take honors on the pad, if you are ready, throw whether you are out or not, if ready...) But, I think everyone needs to putt out. Even most casual rounds, we putt out.

 

[blackcatsmith]

Meh, half my motivation from over 80' out is to just get it close enough to where somebody will pick me up. I always ask if someone wants me to pick up their disc when it's a gimme. The caveat being in competitive play(a tourney, cash on the line, grudge match, pride, etc..), I don't ask and I decline the offer... if for no other reason than I need the practice. I take it as a chance to reaffirm my routine/build my putting confidence. I have yet to call a penalty on anyone... not that I haven't gotten into "discussions" over the rules before.

 

[Atvizory2000]

has anyone seen the video where nikko tries to punch his tap in into the basket and misses? Or where Barry misses a 2 footer on hole 5 at the USDGC? It does happen.

The craziest thing about it to me is that NIKKO WAS THE TD FOR THE EVENT!!!

Does anyone have the video of these? Really like to see how he missed a 2 footer.

 

[Pbmercil]

Does anyone have the video of these? Really like to see how he missed a 2 footer.

I think the only way to get video of Barry's miss would be to dig up a copy of the DVD from 2005. There used to be a vid of the whole round but that link has been dead for YEARS. Nikkos basket punch miss was semi recent, but I don't remember the tournament so I wouldn't be able to find it. Someone may chime in on it, its made the rounds here a bunch of times.

 

[ThomasOrion]

Well, the next time you're on the open lead card and this happens you can call them on it. Until then cary on complaining that ulibarri foot faults.

I call everybody on any rule if its blatant/noticed. Even my close buddies or Other players, never being a jerk about it, just keeping it legit. I'll call Uli on it if I see it. Again, Im not 'looking" for it. But if its blatant. Just keeping it fair.

 

[numbernine]

I like black and white rules enforcement just as much as the next bitter old dude with nothing better to complain about, but christ guys, lighten the up. If you don't want a relaxed vibe, don't play in Nikko's winter series. Better yet, stay off the course altogether so those of us trying to have fun can do so. Or go back to ball golf.

It's one thing if someone picks up a 15-footer on the penultimate hole of a close USDGC final and calls it a drop-in, but this was not that. Slippery slope and yadda yadda, blah blah blah, can't grow the sport unless everyone calls everything, blah blah blah. I am one of the people who could care less if the sport grows beyond what we have now, so my opinion is clearly biased, but the "rules nazi" approach is going to keep just as many throwers from moving from casual to competitive.

Keep having fun, Nikko, and keep ignoring the haters that can't take a little personality with their competition.

1. Couldn't care less. Meaning, you could not care less. You have no more cares to give.
2. Rules nazi? You mean...playing by the rules agreed upon by the prevailing, governing body? K. Stay at home. Let's just play casual rounds then. But the second you slap "PDGA SANCTIONED" on a tournament, you've agreed to play by a set of rules. Why call anything at that point? "hey man, just a LITTLE foot fault". "Hey man, it's hanging on the outside of the basket. we can count those, right?". Gross.
3. Lots of us love fun and "personality" when we compete. But if you aren't going to abide by the rules, then why have them?

 

[teemkey]

A couple of points:

1) There's a big contingent of posters on this site who champion editing out tap-ins; if Paavo had done so, then we wouldn't have this discussion.

2) In the 2015 King of the Lake A-Tier (I forget which round) on several holes James Proctor picked up his disc without using a mini and tapped in. Nikko was on the card, but was not the TD. Lax enforcement of PDGA rules for tap ins seems to be a NorCal tradition (like the 2-meter rule ).

 

[Major Tomahawk]

When I was running Central Valley Series tourneys in CA I always wanted to put a 2 meter circle around the baskets for putting pick-ups.

On a side-note: Josh Anthon used to say, "Can I get a courtesy C-tier pick-up?"

 

[Star Shark]

Barry's miss at the USDGC went as follows. He had about a 20' putt for birdie which was high and he hit the band. He then proceded to not throw his 2.5' tap in hard enough and bounce it off the top of the cage. It was just weird.

 

[cooter]

I really think the situation stems from different perspectives on the importance of tiered events. I've seen this happen a lot on C tier and unsanctioned events but never B tiers in our area because B tiers are pretty much the pinnacle of what we get. I'm not saying it's right but you never see Nikko condone tap ins at A tiers and I'm sure he would call someone for doing so. If your someone that regularly plays A tiers then a B tier or less feels like a casual round whereas the majority of tourney golfers only play in B and C tiers so they feel rules enforcement should hold more merit at these events.

Basically just saying that pros probably think if it ain't an A tier it ain't s*@!. If Nikko came to your town for a B tier and you made him putt everything in he's still taking your money.

 

[Pbmercil]

Barry's miss at the USDGC went as follows. He had about a 20' putt for birdie which was high and he hit the band. He then proceded to not throw his 2.5' tap in hard enough and bounce it off the top of the cage. It was just weird.

IIRC, barry said he he thought he was close enough to reach out and drop it in. But then he reached his arm out and he was like 6 inches short. He was kind of off balance so he tried to flip it in quickly before he fell over.

I really wish someone would dig up the nikko basket punch miss video. Its legendary.

 

[blackcatsmith]

I remember that. I thought he was going to have an brain aneurysm.

 

[DanJon]

The real issue is that this was the chase card correct?

Was the lead card playing by the same rules?

 

[SonicGuy]

The rules nazi crowd is correct in this instance, but still incredibly annoying and petty in the grand scheme. Looking at you
JC17393.

There are two general kinds of rules. There are rules of play and etiquette rules. One dictates the parameters for success within the activity. The other penalizes unwanted conduct. Rule nazis treat both types of rules exactly the same. To them wearing black at Wimbledon is the same level offense as faulting on a serve. The rest of us can make a clear distinction between these two things and generally allow violations of etiquette rules until they become vexing. When a rule nazi attempts to enforce slight violations of etiquette rules the rest of us correctly see this as petty and trying to win without any display of skill.

In this exact instance the rule was a rule of play. The competitors received a very small but still measurable boost to their chances by not having to put away their tap ins. The rule should have been observed. But now let's move on to the level of outrage.

Reasonable people want the game of skill to be decided on skill and skill alone. Rule nazis couldn't care less. They want people to lose if they break the rules, even if they displayed demonstrably more skill in their game. I think most reasonable people disagree with this. Nikko and co. broke the rules, they should not have, but in the end the results were not significantly impacted. The level of outrage should be directly proportional to the net impact of the rule violation.

In dealing with many people in all walks of life, I often find that rules nazis are usually very entitled individuals. They do not like the idea of skill trumping "the rules" as in life their main advantage is not skill but birthright to a higher social status. On the contrary people with a lax viewpoint towards rules have usually succeeded based on skill and aptitude, and are maybe a bit arrogant in feeling above the law.

 

[Chiefstang]

Lotsa' Rule Nazi Nazis in here, lol!

 

[DanJon]

A lot of times, skill can be falsely inflated if you dont follow the rules.

Also "Rules Nazi's" generally want the rules to be followed because otherwise what good is it having rules at all?

If you want to be selective in casual situations, that's your prerogative.

However in sanctioned tournament settings, you are just an entitled whiner if you don't think the rules should be applied to you at all times.

 

[Pbmercil]

They do not like the idea of skill trumping "the rules" as in life their main advantage is not skill but birthright to a higher social status. On the contrary people with a lax viewpoint towards rules have usually succeeded based on skill and aptitude, and are maybe a bit arrogant in feeling above the law.

Jesus dude. Hyperbole much lately?

 

[araytx]

The rules nazi crowd is correct in this instance, but still incredibly annoying and petty in the grand scheme. Looking at you
JC17393.

There are two general kinds of rules. There are rules of play and etiquette rules. One dictates the parameters for success within the activity. The other penalizes unwanted conduct. Rule nazis treat both types of rules exactly the same. To them wearing black at Wimbledon is the same level offense as faulting on a serve. The rest of us can make a clear distinction between these two things and generally allow violations of etiquette rules until they become vexing. When a rule nazi attempts to enforce slight violations of etiquette rules the rest of us correctly see this as petty and trying to win without any display of skill.

In this exact instance the rule was a rule of play. The competitors received a very small but still measurable boost to their chances by not having to put away their tap ins. The rule should have been observed. But now let's move on to the level of outrage.

Reasonable people want the game of skill to be decided on skill and skill alone. Rule nazis couldn't care less. They want people to lose if they break the rules, even if they displayed demonstrably more skill in their game. I think most reasonable people disagree with this. Nikko and co. broke the rules, they should not have, but in the end the results were not significantly impacted. The level of outrage should be directly proportional to the net impact of the rule violation.

In dealing with many people in all walks of life, I often find that rules nazis are usually very entitled individuals. They do not like the idea of skill trumping "the rules" as in life their main advantage is not skill but birthright to a higher social status. On the contrary people with a lax viewpoint towards rules have usually succeeded based on skill and aptitude, and are maybe a bit arrogant in feeling above the law.

I absolutely disagree with the bolded[sic] part; in fact in my 20+ years of management experience I see it completely opposite. Those who don't care about the rules are the entitled, embolden, anointed types. They typically believe that rules don't apply to them. Those who work hard to improve themselves, often putting in more time than most, also pay attention to rules and expect nothing less of the other people. Those aren't the people blessed by God with talent and athletic or intrinsic ability; they are the backbone of this country.

That's been my experience. Notice the "[sic]".

 

[SonicGuy]

However in sanctioned tournament settings, you are just an entitled whiner if you don't think the rules should be applied to you at all times.

What if someone doesn't care if a rule applies to YOU? Are they an entitled whiner?

 

[SonicGuy]

That's been my experience. Notice the "[sic]".

You clearly value hard work over skill, ability, or intelligence. Why is that? Do you feel like you were not born with enough skills and need to work harder to survive?

My statement really doesn't involve the "hard working" schlubs. It is about two varieties of flawed individuals. The ones born with ability and the ones born with privilege. I would agree with you that the naturally skilled usually don't think the rules apply to them, but they also don't seek to apply the rules to anyone else.