Zee Swedish

[sidewinder22]

On the reachback, right shoulder below and in line with the left shoulder (assuming RHBH) would require a tilted spine, correct? Am I getting this?

Amount of tilt depends on the throw and whether or not you keep everything on plane. Steve Brinster is always on plane.

This is the extremist version of Swedish pendulum.

 

[Annakin SkyHyzer]

Nice vid SW!

Basically, any plane can work between flat shoulder height or -90° spike hyzer, as long as your square on your follow through.

 

[Pbmercil]

This thread is solid gold. Just commenting so I'll be able to find it for later reference. Keep up the great work guys. I don't post about the super technical stuff here in the T&S section but I read it religiously and it has helped my game a ton.

 

[Star Shark]

The prime examples of Swedish style are Jesper Lundmark and Linus Astrom, both of Latitude 64, actually. Oddly enough, Garrett Gurthie throws like this as well.

 

[BrotherDave]

So the recent appearances of GG on the lead cards had me curious about trying Swedish seriously (Feldy's form also). I don't think I've ever had such instantaneous results. All of the stuff that eluded me with the conventional style (bracing, keeping the weight from transferring too soon, closing hips/shoulders, etc) seem to take of themselves, just fall into place perfectly. It's literally night and day's difference. My meh-est Swedish throws are right there with my best bent-elbow throws and my good feeling Swedish throws are adding 30-50' easily. With way less effort and with way less aggravation to my elbow tendinitis. Other bonuses have been way better hyzers (I'm a serial wrist roller-over-er) and much cleaner releases which is giving my flippy discs more life and my beefy discs more beef. I think my body-type might lend itself to this style, i.e. shaped like GG more than Eagle McMahon.

The only real drawbacks so far is aiming for hitting gaps in the woods. I don't have the timing down quite right yet but I don't think it's going to be necessarily worse for woods golf like I've seen speculated about this style. I've actually been surprised how well I've been able to adapt to hitting gaps so far in these early stages. I can power down with it well, it's just finding the combination of power and plane angle for a particular disc to hit a particular gap that's taking some getting used to.

 

[billyjacko]

So the recent appearances of GG on the lead cards had me curious about trying Swedish seriously (Feldy's form also)... My meh-est Swedish throws are right there with my best bent-elbow throws and my good feeling Swedish throws are adding 30-50' easily. With way less effort and with way less aggravation to my elbow tendinitis...

GG definitely bends his elbow. He actually gets the disc/hand very close to his body a la the downward tilt/briefcase pull (similar to Eagle and Lizotte). His power pocket is practically at his left shoulder instead of the right pec, and this may be why it seems like he doesn't bend his elbow.

 

[anonyduce]

GG definitely bends his elbow. He actually gets the disc/hand very close to his body a la the downward tilt/briefcase pull (similar to Eagle and Lizotte). His power pocket is practically at his left shoulder instead of the right pec, and this may be why it seems like he doesn't bend his elbow.

He has the pendulum motion you see from the Swedish style. I'd say he's got a good mix of the the two.


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[billyjacko]

He has the pendulum motion you see from the Swedish style. I'd say he's got a good mix of the the two.

I guess I may not fully understand the correlation between Swedish style vs what Feldberg does with his throwing arm. I always thought Swedish style was reaching back under the rear arm and pumping down as the disc passes

 

[BrotherDave]

The pendulum down swing is really the hallmark of the Swedish style and the straighter the arm the more obvious it is. GG bends his elbow but he doesn't use the bent-elbow style as much as he does lever it Swedish style.

 

[sidewinder22]

I guess I may not fully understand the correlation between Swedish style vs what Feldberg does with his throwing arm. I always thought Swedish style was reaching back under the rear arm and pumping down as the disc passes

In the purest of form side by side comparison, Astrom("Swedish") vs Doss("American"):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhQzVIX4cVs&t=1m47s

Pretty much anyone that hops and swings more underneath their body like a pendulum is "Swedish" or mostly Swedish. There are variations of the rear arm and hybrids of both styles, but the forward tilted body/vertical shoulder rotation(golf swing) is mainly used as a longer lever against the arm/wrist. They have silly power on hyzer and will rarely seem them throwing pure anhyzers. Notable mostly Swedes... David Wiggins, Simon Lizotte, Steve Brinster, Garrett Gurthie, David Feldberg, Kevin Jones, Robbie Bratten, Eric McCabe, Drew Gibson, Will Schusterick, Eagle McMahon, Alex Geisinger, Ken and Marc Jarvis.

"American" or "Bent arm/elbow" is more snappy like a wrist shot vs slap shot is how Blake_T described it. He said Swedish uses more wrist extension while American uses more elbow extension. American uses more redirection/physics trick of the swing while Swedish uses more pure mechanical leverage and has more distance potential. Noteable more Mericans... Nate Doss, and Matt Orum.

 

[anonyduce]

Correct me if I'm wrong but Simon seems to keep true to the Swedish style also. Am I crazy?


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[sidewinder22]

Correct me if I'm wrong but Simon seems to keep true to the Swedish style also. Am I crazy?


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His name appears on my list above you.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

In the purest of form side by side comparison, Astrom("Swedish") vs Doss("American"):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhQzVIX4cVs&t=1m47s

Pretty much anyone that hops and swings more underneath their body like a pendulum is "Swedish" or mostly Swedish. There are variations of the rear arm and hybrids of both styles, but the forward tilted body/vertical shoulder rotation(golf swing) is mainly used as a longer lever against the arm/wrist. They have silly power on hyzer and will rarely seem them throwing pure anhyzers. Notable mostly Swedes... David Wiggins, Simon Lizotte, Steve Brinster, Garrett Gurthie, David Feldberg, Kevin Jones, Robbie Bratten, Eric McCabe, Drew Gibson, Will Schusterick, Eagle McMahon, Alex Geisinger, Ken and Marc Jarvis.

"American" or "Bent arm/elbow" is more snappy like a wrist shot vs slap shot is how Blake_T described it. He said Swedish uses more wrist extension while American uses more elbow extension. American uses more redirection/physics trick of the swing while Swedish uses more pure mechanical leverage and has more distance potential. Noteable more Mericans... Nate Doss, and Matt Orum.

Wonderful footage to compare/contrast. Thanks for posting this!


... and yeah, he got Simon.

 

[slowplastic]

In the purest of form side by side comparison, Astrom("Swedish") vs Doss("American"):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhQzVIX4cVs&t=1m47s

Pretty much anyone that hops and swings more underneath their body like a pendulum is "Swedish" or mostly Swedish. There are variations of the rear arm and hybrids of both styles, but the forward tilted body/vertical shoulder rotation(golf swing) is mainly used as a longer lever against the arm/wrist. They have silly power on hyzer and will rarely seem them throwing pure anhyzers. Notable mostly Swedes... David Wiggins, Simon Lizotte, Steve Brinster, Garrett Gurthie, David Feldberg, Kevin Jones, Robbie Bratten, Eric McCabe, Drew Gibson, Will Schusterick, Eagle McMahon, Alex Geisinger, Ken and Marc Jarvis.

"American" or "Bent arm/elbow" is more snappy like a wrist shot vs slap shot is how Blake_T described it. He said Swedish uses more wrist extension while American uses more elbow extension. American uses more redirection/physics trick of the swing while Swedish uses more pure mechanical leverage and has more distance potential. Noteable more Mericans... Nate Doss, and Matt Orum.

Is McBeth more American style then, since his spine is a bit more upright with flatter shoulders through the back and forward swing? Also this would be the reason for his higher arm height through the power pocket area?

I guess this is also the tendency for why McBeth and Doss throw lots of flat midrange shots rather than hyzer release angles on nearly everything?

 

[sidewinder22]

Is McBeth more American style then, since his spine is a bit more upright with flatter shoulders through the back and forward swing? Also this would be the reason for his higher arm height through the power pocket area?

I guess this is also the tendency for why McBeth and Doss throw lots of flat midrange shots rather than hyzer release angles on nearly everything?

I'd put McBeth in the 50/50 hybrid category. His backswing is Swedish, but his forward swing tends more American although I think he changes it up on throws.

This is more Swedish though:

 

[lyleoross]

Question, does one version seem more accurate than the other? Feldy argues that alignment means that even if you pull into a hyzer, the disc will come down where you are aligned. That doesn't help in the woods, IMO, where getting off the line in a hyzer means you're in the trees. I have an opinion here, or rather, what seems to work better for me, but it may be that I understand one throw better than the other.

 

[sidewinder22]

Question, does one version seem more accurate than the other? Feldy argues that alignment means that even if you pull into a hyzer, the disc will come down where you are aligned. That doesn't help in the woods, IMO, where getting off the line in a hyzer means you're in the trees. I have an opinion here, or rather, what seems to work better for me, but it may be that I understand one throw better than the other.

IMO if your shoulders are rotating on a more vertical plane, it will keep your swing straighter on your line with less variance left/right, but height variance would increase. While a flatter rotational plane will have more left/right variance with less height variance.

 

[BrotherDave]

IMO if your shoulders are rotating on a more vertical plane, it will keep your swing straighter on your line with less variance left/right, but height variance would increase. While a flatter rotational plane will have more left/right variance with less height variance.

This is what I'm finding out. My screw ups under the American style were usually griplocks or the occasional early slip. With Swedish the screw ups tend to be nose up hyzers that climb too high or the occasional worm burner. It's a trade off. I haven't noticed myself sucking in the woods anymore than usual though, surprisingly. I've actually been a little better at hitting lines requiring a tight hyzer b/c clean hyzers are so much easier with Swedish. I used to have to intentionally roll my wrist under to hit these lines before.

 

[Casey 1988]

I must have the oddest drive as mine has little to no follow though swing at the end. I have always done this or the disc flies at best ~30% off from the line I want to throw, can be worse though and the follow though hurts sometimes. I am not even sure what style it is, I feel it is more a short midrange/really long approach type throw but done in driving style just minus the follow through. Mine is not griplock so much as a release to timing thing.

 

[Casey 1988]

This is what I'm finding out. My screw ups under the American style were usually griplocks or the occasional early slip. With Swedish the screw ups tend to be nose up hyzers that climb too high or the occasional worm burner. It's a trade off. I haven't noticed myself sucking in the woods anymore than usual though, surprisingly. I've actually been a little better at hitting lines requiring a tight hyzer b/c clean hyzers are so much easier with Swedish. I used to have to intentionally roll my wrist under to hit these lines before.

I can worm burn with my what I think is Ameriacan style just no follow though. It has to do with how low the disc comes out of my hand.