[Innova] From hype to horror-DON'T POST A GROOVE THREAD UNTIL YOU READ THIS!

[dangitboy]

Discs like this can be useful for people who are also no longer looking to improve their technique and want a little more distance, but most of the people who that applies to get just as good, if not better results out of speed 9-10 discs. These people generally have decades of disc experience and really good line shaping skills. A vast majority of people who use these discs end up limiting how far and what lines they can throw on because they're using discs that are too fast and pick up bad habits to compensate.

 

[valkyriefb11]

Discs like this can be useful for people who are also no longer looking to improve their technique and want a little more distance, but most of the people who that applies to get just as good, if not better results out of speed 9-10 discs. These people generally have decades of disc experience and really good line shaping skills. A vast majority of people who use these discs end up limiting how far and what lines they can throw on because they're using discs that are too fast and pick up bad habits to compensate.

As some one who is learning this the hard way right now Garublador is right. Im finding I can get way more distance out of my champ Tee-Bird than I can with my champ boss, even though the boss is 'faster'. Lately Ive realized that Im actually stunting my distance by trying to throw to much of a disc for me at this time.
Although Ill admit I did bye a new groove even if it wont do me much good ... we gotta help keep Innova in business ... right?

 

[gusc2375]

I don't have an arm for the Boss yet I keep it for sharp hyser shots, My Groove is still just for practice till I find a place for it in my shots. Sometimes I throw disc and shape shots with them other times I use a discs natural flight for my advantage. " I think you have to learn each disc" I have 2 wraiths 1 in pro 1 in star they are similar yet diff one is tuned the other is newer I use them for diff situations on diff courses. We can all learn to use new disc even if we don't throw fast enough to reach a disc's rated speed. I can throw consistantly 325' max 375' with a tailwind. I can get a Buzzz out over 225' with control. I will continue to try and improve technic and hope to reach 400' this year. But the topic is the Groove and I like mine neon green First run 166g.

 

[_.-Dut-._]

Discs like this can be useful for people who are also no longer looking to improve their technique and want a little more distance, but most of the people who that applies to get just as good, if not better results out of speed 9-10 discs. These people generally have decades of disc experience and really good line shaping skills. A vast majority of people who use these discs end up limiting how far and what lines they can throw on because they're using discs that are too fast and pick up bad habits to compensate.

^^ Hes accurate about this. Your technique will improve at a much faster pace if you stick to discs that are in your power range. Your form will improve and as a result so will your distance. There is no magic disc that is going to give you instant form and distance. So if you started throwing Grooves and now your getting out to 330', youd be better off just taking the distance hit and going back to teebirds and other fairway drivers til your distance gets up with those. Much faster way to improve.

 

[TalbotTrojan]

Remember that the weight of a disc will also play an important role in one's ability to get the disc to keep its flight characteristics. So my 150 Valk, I can get a -4 turn or more on. But my 170 Sidewinder will only turn its -3 for me unles I put some anhy on it. The whole point of the Groove, as I have heard, was to produce a speed 13 disc that could be made in lower weights. This may help but it is still going to be an interesting disc to use. I will admit that I saw a Adv Master throw a Boss Hyzer that literally blew my mind. That is where I think you will also see the speed be more evident, in shots that are not flat. I will trust Innova that the flight characteristics are correct but it may be a little while before I get one for myself.

 

[blang]

Does anyone have any comparison between the 1st Runs and the regular runs of the Groove?

 

[garublador]

As some one who is learning this the hard way right now Garublador is right.

Make that someone else. I learned that the hard way, too, and the super fast discs that were out at the time were the Beast, Orc and Flash. I learned more in 2 months of throwing a Gazelle than I did in 2 years of throwing old mold Beasts and Flashes. As a bonus, my usable putter and mid distance skyrocketed, too.

Using these discs for long hyzers can work, but IMO there are better choices than the Boss. I'd pick a Z Avenger, SOLF or Champ/Star Starfire if you're throwng fairway drivers 350' or a EXP1, FL or beat DX Firebird or Banshee if you're throwing less. Distance control will be easier and they might be a bit more predictable in the wind.

 

[zensuit]

Using these discs for long hyzers can work, but IMO there are better choices than the Boss. I'd pick a Z Avenger, SOLF or Champ/Star Starfire if you're throwng fairway drivers 350' or a EXP1, FL or beat DX Firebird or Banshee if you're throwing less. Distance control will be easier and they might be a bit more predictable in the wind.[/QUOTE]

I want to second the use of the Avenger for Hyzers...I've found no better disc. Mine is in ESP plastic and is my money driver. I don't have big arm ut when I need a reliable S I can throw it out left and it turns and flexs the same way every time.

 

[ZMan44]

This is not a question about how the disc throws...but I am curious. At the local PIA Sports, they have some of the new grooves...about 10 and all are the first run star stamps. They are 14.99. I looked through all of them yesterday looking for a lighter weight. I noticed that there was one blue one near the back that felt different. It felt like star plastic rather than champion plastic. Is this possible? The reason I ask is that all others were clearly champion. Translucent and bright and there were a few in blue. The disc in question was also blue but looked and felt much different than the others. The flight plate could be seen through...but only barely, it was rather opaque. And the plastic did not have the slick feel of champion. It felt like star and looked like star but it had the first run stamp. Again, is this possibly a blended plastic? I don't know and that's why I am seeking the advice of the masses. Thanks.

 

[biscoe]

i got a few of those in my order of 50, they feel NOTHING like champion plastic. when i inquired to dave dunipace (innova owner) on the pdga board he maintained they were champion. i still do not believe it- they have to be some sort of blend. feel damn good too.

 

[RYFLE]

Just threw my groove for the first time today and I love it. Turned it over off the snap and then it keep a nice line for 350 landing 10 feet from the basket. I feel if I really put all my power into this disc I could get it close to 500 feet easy. I do throw a boss as my main driver and even if I keep it flat and straight it will still fade hard and sometimes take massive skips but this disc just kinda slowed down and died when it hit the ground. Im going to go play on a more challenging course this afternoon and really let loose.

 

[BENFTS]

i must say compared to all my other champion discs this feel very different too. i do not like the slipery feel it has. maybe it needs to be broken in a bit more but it feel very slippery.

 

[valkyriefb11]

So I got my groove today (its a right purdy disc )
It flew pretty stable ... but I dont think I had enough power to get it to its full flight pattern. The few good throws I got off it did fly like a very very fast valk (maybe not as understable) ... but I dont have the arm strength to consistently throw it fast enough. For now I will just admire the beauty of the disc until I can really rip it

 

[Lewis]

A few questions...

1: I hear a lot of claims out there that slower discs "improve your form more quickly than fast discs," but how is a disc supposed to improve my form? Doesn't improvement come from practice and good advice, no matter what you're throwing?

2: Even if you've got an arm like Randy Johnson, is a Speed 13 disc really going to be all that useful on most courses? Seriously, how many broad, straight, 450 foot fairways are there out there anyway? I haven't seen any in my hometown.

3: I don't understand the motives of those that say "don't buy a high-speed driver unless your form is perfect..." Why not let people go experiment and find their point of diminishing return themselves? They may decide to put away the Groove for a while until their form improves, but why should we discourage experimentation?

 

[Lewis]

Also, regarding the plastic question: I've never seen Star plastic be anything other than completely opaque. If it's translucent at all, I'd feel confident it's Champion. Maybe the near-opacity is caused by the dye or the thickness of the top? Does the Groove have a relatively thick top? I saw a couple of these at a local store, but not seeing a use in my bag for such a fast disc, I didn't fiddle with them much.

 

[blang]

Does anyone have any comparison between the 1st Runs and the regular runs of the Groove?

good question. Does anyone know yet?

 

[Hamilton]

good question. Does anyone know yet?

i might be able to find that out later today...i have a first run, my buddy has a regular run...

 

[trifocal]

2: Even if you've got an arm like Randy Johnson, is a Speed 13 disc really going to be all that useful on most courses? Seriously, how many broad, straight, 450 foot fairways are there out there anyway? I haven't seen any in my hometown.

I've played with a couple guys who can throw 450' and have seen for myself that those guys use lines that are inconceivable for me maxing out at 300 one time out of every four throws. When a guy is able to throw that far, he doesn't neccesarily have to go down the fairway. They can throw around and over obstacles and come at the basket from the side using openings that aren't available to us mortals fighting for every 10 feet off the tee. Essentially using their ability to take their disc on a 450-500 flight to get to a basket that's well guarded in front but maybe only 350- 400 as the crow flies.

 

[ChaseTheAce]

This is not a question about how the disc throws...but I am curious. At the local PIA Sports, they have some of the new grooves...about 10 and all are the first run star stamps. They are 14.99. I looked through all of them yesterday looking for a lighter weight. I noticed that there was one blue one near the back that felt different. It felt like star plastic rather than champion plastic. Is this possible? The reason I ask is that all others were clearly champion. Translucent and bright and there were a few in blue. The disc in question was also blue but looked and felt much different than the others. The flight plate could be seen through...but only barely, it was rather opaque. And the plastic did not have the slick feel of champion. It felt like star and looked like star but it had the first run stamp. Again, is this possibly a blended plastic? I don't know and that's why I am seeking the advice of the masses. Thanks.

I picked up three and one of like this. I was told they are referred to as "Iced" plastic. Mine is orange and very opaque.

 

[JR Stengele]

I have two on the way, one first run and one second run and am interested to see what the differences are.