Dave242's Review of Idlewild

[LStephens]

Let me put my disclaimer right up front so their is no doubt. I'm a Hole Sponsor at Idlewild and work on the course daily. However, I've played many many courses and understand what each course offers a variety of skill levels. I live in the exact center of Idlewild and Banklick...aka... Lincoln Ridge.

Let me start out by saying that I've played both courses about the same number of times...which is about 1 gazillion. I know each hole on each course better than most of you know your wives and/or girlfriends. Thus let me cut to the bone on one point:

You criticize Idlewild for not having anywhere to 'get the testosterone flowing' versus Banklick. Ok...There is ONE hole at Banklick I've never deuced. #24 is over 500 feet and I simply can't throw over about 400...it is a pretty easy 3 and the only hole most 900+ rated players can't reach. Hole #11 is slightly uphill and out of my range..I need a nice 60 foot putt to hit a deuce there...but the rest of the course is simply deuce city. If you don't shoot a 10 down there in Open...you are getting left behind. BTW...24 has been aced lately...and I've seen chains hit 3 times.

Idlewild by contrast..let's see...Hole #1 you can come out of your shoes if you like..I've seen a few 1000 rated pros blow past the 686 feet...but I can count them on 1 hand. Hole #2...you can throw an Avenger SS or Road Runner on a nice 300+ foot turn over...or simply roll it..or a nice strong side arm...which gets you to the SHORT basket...then another toss across the pond for the long basket...I've seen some big arms go OVER THE TREES from the tee to the long basket...400+ feet over trees and water to reach a green that has water in front and to the left.

#3 from the LONG placement you can come out of your shoes on...but if you go left....Oscar Bravo.

#4 is a tight turnover short must deuce hole.

#5 is where you are probably talking about a 200ft putter shot...yep..that is the safe play for someone without skill or gonads...you can power a forehand halfway up the hill..throw a hard turn over shot halfway up the hill...or get this..most 1000 rated players GO OVER THE TOP...bet you didn't even think of that shot...I've seen #5 deuced many times...my personal best is a 3.

#6..I guess you miss read this as a putter to the top of the hill at 150 feet...another putter to the mouth at about 190 feet..then a forehand around the corner at another 150 feet...well guess what...you hyzer flip a beat up disc off the tee and hit the mouth in one..then forehand around the corner and walk away with a 3 if you got guts.

#7..my Adopt-A-Hole...you simply have to hit the Tiger Vision button on the joypad and either put that forehand down there or put a beautiful comet shot right under the basket...an almost Must Deuce hole.

#8...tight fairway drive...300 feet to where you need to be for your upshot...Oh..another 300 foot shot.

#9...picturesque ace run...the only one with more adrenaline for me is Hole #1 on the temp West Course in Columbus, OH Hoover Dam.

#10..I guess you threw a putter 200 feet to the corner..then 300 feet to the pin on your approach...well...one of the pulls is a 300 foot pull...but most of us turn that corner...last year Avery Jenkins shocked everyone and went over the top on a monster turn over and darn near parked the basket.

#11..one of the most beautiful shots in all of disc golf...when it is on Wii Disc Golf the commentators will mention it so...and it is over 300 feet.

#12..anything bad you want to say about this hole...I'll agree with...we plan on cutting a few dead trees..and backing it up 60 feet...if I have my way.

#13...I know you weren't shooting at the short basket were you? You gotta man up and go for the long basket...over the hill...down across the creek..to a non-island green...a very hard Par 4 and a beautiful shot. over 300 feet

#14..you probably played the short tee across from #13 short basket..the long tee is down the hill after #13 long. It is simply put everything you got in it up that wooded hill that just won't end..and then a full pull forehand up some more incline...yep...over 300 feet.

#15...if you can only throw 300 feet...you get to come out of your shoes THREE TIMES here.

#16...short basket is over 300 feet...it is a beautiful long ace run with an XL or Buzzz..the long basket is tricky...gotta either keep it turned over or throw a bomb of a forehand...gotta stay right of the creek and left of the Mando..yep..it's an island green...but it doesn't really alter scoring.

#17 is a nice full pull midrange up the hill..and tight.

#18...I guess you could throw a putter 200 feet to the top...but be a man...rare back and show me you can throw it 400+ straight as an arrow..or atleast 300feet...I've seen shots here at 500+ feet to the mouth...not me...but I subscribe to the Buzzz, Buzzz, Buzzz, putt theory of tournament golf...but I'm no 1000+ rate golfer.

I count 13 holes where you can get your juices flowing...not counting your 2 extra chunks on #15....so the arguement of no place to throw hard is blown out of the water.

NEXT arguement:

Too many trees...I guess you like open courses...I can't argue there..it is a tight course...some of us love it tight...some like to go throw 18 long holes in an open field...to each his own.

NEXT arguement: Island Greens

Some people don't like the fact you have to think before you throw. I know a lot of people that won't play any OB on any course...they step out of the woods into the fairway to take their next shot. Technically #3 isn't an island hole...it is a peninsula. #2 has about 100 acres behind it...#11 is the smallest green I know of..and there has been heated debate on the subject. #13 long isn't....#15 is..because people were simply bombing drivers from the top of the hill...you can be off to the right 150 feet and raining down on the people on #16 tee or fairway. #16 short plays as an island in tournaments...#16 long plays as an island anytime. So really two holes.

NEXT arguement: 1/4 of the holes are < 200 feet.

#9 is 192 feet...tightly framed by trees...a beautiful shot. Trees dictate that you don't have to add linear feet to add difficulty. #12 is 142 feet and pretty tight. You really need a breather on #9 before you get into the difficulty of #10 and #11..and then a breather at #12 before you get into #13 and #14 long..same with #4 leading up to the tough #5 and #6. However... 18 holes divided by 2 holes < 200 feet is 9...which means 1/9th of the holes are < 200 feet.

Next arguement: It's not a 'Professional Level Course'

You played it like an Am. Idlewild is simply the best course I've ever seen...and I haven't seen them all...that can showcase greatness from a top rated player that is having a career day. It is the type of course where an Avery Jenkins, Tyler Horne, Brad Schick, Matt Blakely, and others can come out...and be on fire...and have other 1000 rated players shaking their heads in disbelief at the shots they are able to pull off. It can showcase greatness like no other course....it can also humble the mighty...unless you play it scared like an Am.

Oh..and you say island greens are a 'gimmick' to bump up the Par and SSA and then you mention Renny Gold in the same breath? I don't know if you know this...but Gold Ropes are GIMMICKY to increase Par and Course SSA on an otherwise boring piece of land...sure...Renny Gold is awesome and wonderful to play..but don't call stone walled greens with mulch gimmicky and then say Gold Ropes making tight OB is all natural.

A 75 FROM THE LONGS is right about where you should be...about a 950 rated round. The thing about Idlewild is...you can make mistakes...and you can come back from them...it isn't your normal deuce or die course that most people love...where you miss one or two putts and your day is done. Idlewild punishes greed...it rewards good shots...but I've seen people be extremely greedy and rewarded heavily. I guess you played it too safe...and girls don't put up much of a fight if you are telling them they are right while they yell at you....they tend not to swing hard when you admit you are wrong...They lose respect for you but end the fight quickly when you cower in front of them.....

But how about pay Idlewild another visit...I'll meet you there....call it by another girls name...show it you have a strong pimp hand...rare back and unleash the fury...show it you are the man..and you'll either emerge from the woods feeling like god...or a broken man.

 

[REDARMY]

i've seen people get pissed about someone's review before, but jeez...

switch to decaf dude.

if you'd have kept it objective, i could see a point to your argument. but the 'pimp hand' and philosophical 'broken man' comments steer my opinion to you just being a pissed off fanboy local. grnated i haven't read the review in question, but still.

this is all supposed to be fun, remember?

(nevermind you could've done all of this by private message too....)

 

[LStephens]

exactly...you haven't read the review...only skimmed to the last line...taken out of context you think I'm pissed off. I would never get pissed off about another persons opinions...everyone has a right to their own..and the right to express them.

I'll gladly play my local course with anyone...and hopefully that offers stands with others when I visit their local courses. I'm probably the friendliest...jokiest person you will ever play a round with. I never cuss a tree..never kick my bag...and never blame a squirrel for a missed putt...ok...ONE TIME...but the squirrel was eye balling me and bowing his chest out in a threatening manner.

 

[DGtourist]

:: pops popcorn :: :ulls up a chair::

 

[DGtourist]

exactly...you haven't read the review...only skimmed to the last line...taken out of context you think I'm pissed off. I would never get pissed off about another persons opinions...everyone has a right to their own..and the right to express them.

I'll gladly play my local course with anyone...and hopefully that offers stands with others when I visit their local courses. I'm probably the friendliest...jokiest person you will ever play a round with. I never cuss a tree..never kick my bag...and never blame a squirrel for a missed putt...ok...ONE TIME...but the squirrel was eye balling me and bowing his chest out in a threatening manner.

LOL that is funny! OMG dood I think I've been eyed by that same bastard!

 

[REDARMY]

:: pops popcorn :: :ulls up a chair::

nothing to see here.

after figuring out who dave 242 or whatever is, i find a whole lot more to agree with in Mr. Stephens post and have communicated as much to him by PM.

and as such, i'll leave this thread for the rest of you folks.

 

[DGtourist]

nothing to see here.

after figuring out who dave 242 or whatever is, i find a whole lot more to agree with in Mr. Stephens post and have communicated as much to him by PM.

and as such, i'll leave this thread for the rest of you folks.

I'll be back. The funny thing is that his Idlewild review is one of the only ones that isn't like a form letter.

 

[LStephens]

ok...so maybe the written word translates a little harsh and not the way two guys talk to each other when face to face. I think in my attempt at brevity...yep that LONG post was my attempt to keep things short....well..in that attempt...it came off a little rushed and abrasive...but I'll leave it like it is...I always lived by the rule of say what you have to say..and work out the nuances later.

 

[NDABRUSH]

talk about a lazy reviewer. I thought I was bad.

I read dave242's review last night and was wondering why he would exaggerate in such an obvious manner in a critical way. Most would exaggerate about their favorite home course which usually isn't as good as the local thinks, but dave242's rating really stands out like which 1 of these things don't belong here. 1/9 is almost 1/8 not 1/4. In fact 1/9 isn't even half of 1/4.

 

[t i m]

Great Idlewild write up. It's on my short list of courses I most want to see. I'll drop you a PM when I someday make it that way, and hopefully you can show off the course in person. Can't wait to see it. It sounds like my kind of golf.

 

[Dave242]

I will not have time until this evening to discuss, but if anyone happens to be interested in the approach I have taken to review/rank courses (which I think is as valid as most), it is contained in my profile page. For convenience, here it is:

I rank courses subjectively based on my own personal enjoyment factor…maybe more accurately my "personal addiction factor". Since I have played a decent number of courses, my hope is that players/explorers who have similar tastes will find my ratings list helpful. I fully expect others with different tastes to disagree with me.

I insert new courses into my ranking list (115 18-hole, 50 9-hole as of early 2009) based on this question: If this course and 3 adjacent courses on my ranked list were all 5 miles from my home, would I play this new course more or less often? I insert the new course in a grouping where all 4 are roughly equal in their ability to draw me back to themselves. I rate all courses from the longest tee pads available (unless otherwise noted).

I grade on an 11 point grade scale like in school (A+, A, A-…D+, D…..No D- or F's since any course is better than no course, IMO). This matches up well with the 11 point scale used here. I have one list for courses with 18 or more holes, and one for less than 18.

I base my "personal addiction factor" on how a given course would feed these desires:
1) To be challenged by the course
2) To have fun with friends
3) To relax and enjoy nature in a beautiful and secluded setting
4) To enjoy a nice birdie fest
I go out to play with a pretty equal mix of these motivations over the course of a month.

What I personally like:
1) Holes with good risk/reward - good shots/decisions are rewarded and poor ones are punished
2) Holes that have rewarding birdie opportunities for me. I am a 950-ish player who throws 300' accurately, 350' max
So, almost all holes shorter than 220 are boring to me as are par 3 holes between 370' and 500' (I can't realistically expect a deuce, a 3 is boring, and a 4 is frustrating)
3) More wooded than open - lots of variety of shots required caused by hole shape and topography
4) Natural beauty (Appalachian beauty preferred) and/or feeling of seclusion
5) Multi-shot holes with defined landing zones - good risk/reward on "I'm going for it" choices and multiple options/decision to play them. Since most courses do not have these types of holes, this is a bonus to my rating, not a demerit if not present. To get an A in this category it must be a par 70+ course with great multi-shot holes.

I personally know how much goes into designing, building and maintaining a course. Hopefully on the courses I rate on the low end it is known that I still have great appreciation for what went into getting the course in the ground - Thank You!

 

[Dave242]

I read dave242's review last night and was wondering why he would exaggerate in such an obvious manner in a critical way. ...... 1/9 is almost 1/8 not 1/4. In fact 1/9 isn't even half of 1/4.

Doh - my bad on the math ....Thanks for catching that. I'll need to update that for sure!

 

[scarpfish]

Just for giggles, if there's a feature I'd like to see added to the site, it would be something where the reviewers Zip code and the Course's Zip code are plugged into a database, just so we can see how our 4.5 to 5 star courses stack up in the minds of people who aren't locals to those courses. Might put some of the glowing ratings these courses are getting in perspective.

I really didn't see any problem with Dave242's review.

 

[jgentry]

LStephens just take a deep breath. It doesn't really matter if you agree with his review or rating or not. He has the right to feel however he wants to feel and rate idlewild however he feels appropriate. I think the number of high reviews will give people an accurate feel about the course.

I read his review and agree somewhat about the pitching to spots on a few holes and then doing it over and over. It did get a little repedative and there are few holes that I just didn't like. That being said, I had only been playing about a year and I was not playing very well when we played idlewild and my shoulder was bothering me. I would love to play it with a higher level local that can know some other routes and options on some of the holes. There are several holes that even the longest thrower can rip it full power and come up was short, so i don't agree with it not having any rip it holes at all.

I need to make it back up again. It's been a year and I'm throwing better and farther and I think I would enjoy it more now. Not my favorite course, but I did rate it 4.5 which it tied for highest with a couple other course I rated. My main reason for not giving it a 5 is you have to cross a fairway to get to one teepad. Overall it truley is a great course!

 

[BENFTS]

dude that squirrel was doing that to me this last weekend. i have to say i was intimidated. but i am with you i am not a fan of his reviews, but i don't vote them down. i think a PM with some hints on how to improve the quality of his reviews would be the best way to take care of this.

 

[Greg Layton]

To the OP:

Maybe instead of ranting against another reviewer you should consider taking the information from your post and updating your review. In the long run a lot more folks are going to read your review (that's only getting 6 out of 16 positives due to it's lack of information) than this silly message board post.

In short, chill out or go take your anger out on the chains. Dave242 is as entitled to his opinion as you are.

 

[Greg Layton]

Just for giggles, if there's a feature I'd like to see added to the site, it would be something where the reviewers Zip code and the Course's Zip code are plugged into a database, just so we can see how our 4.5 to 5 star courses stack up in the minds of people who aren't locals to those courses. Might put some of the glowing ratings these courses are getting in perspective.

Maybe something good could come out of this thread after all. Too bad a lot of folks don't enter their zip code information.

 

[DiscGolfCraig]

Do we really want to set this precedent of calling people out in a public forum if they write something you don't like? Is this the grown-up version of "I'm taking my ball home with me so nobody can play" when you don't like what's said?

If nothing else, maybe this shows that individual ratings should not be shown, only the overall rating. Perhaps we'll get more honest grades that way.

 

[magictenor1]

I haven't played the course so I can't speak to the particulars but I agree that everyone is entitled to their opinion and calling them out does not seem productive. I read the review and it seemed he was just giving his opinion adn i don't have a problem with that.

 

[Marty McFly]

Some of us get too worked up over reviews.