DiscNutt123
Double Eagle Member
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2010
- Messages
- 1,957
Yep, as laughable as the scores that produced them...
YES.
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Yep, as laughable as the scores that produced them...
and it's always funny to me when people complain about it and claim that it's flawed or unfair. It's math, for God's sake - your rating reflects how you play in sanctioned tournaments - full stop.
Never grow? It's only, what, doubled, tripled in size since the rating systems came out?
Having a ratings system has not made the sport more credible in the public eye.
I used to be in your shoes but I pretty much stopped caring what my rating is this year. The system is so varied and inexact, this sport will never grow or be taken seriously until something better can happen to make it more exact. I have more fun playing local leagues and fundraiser tournaments than nerve-racking State Championships and A-tier events anyway.
First, the ball golf handicap system uses self reported scores which negates any validity right there versus only using tournament scores in the DG system.
By their estimates, about 45-50% of players report only good scores to get low handicaps for bragging rights because they never play handicap events.
That number is likely outside of an order of magnitude of being correct.About 45-50% report mostly poor scores to get a high handicap because they play in handicap events.
Well, he did more than just come up with the slope portion... And the second part is either not true at all or relies upon using an incredibly narrow, bizarre definition of the word "validate." FWIW golf didn't even use the current rating/slope system until 1990.I also communicated with the Pope of Slope, Dean Knuth, creator of the slope factor in their formula. ... He indicated that the last scoring data used to "validate" the ball golf system was the US Amateur in 1970.
That's not true at all. I've been in meetings and helped crunch the data for those things, and again, I've rated courses and the formulas for rating take into account all sorts of factors - length, elevation, trees, green speed and undulation, mounding, stance issues, water, prevailing wind, and even psychological factors.The course ratings in ball golf are static values that are literally made up with no validation against actual scores because they have no way to do it.
The slope system is essentially a fudge factor to theoretically make the numbers work better. There's no adjustment for weather factors in the system.
Handicapping is a sucker bet in ball golf because when you only use your best 10 of the last 20 rounds, if your handicap was done properly, you can only beat your handicap 1 in 4 rounds.
They do that so they can play from different tees, play against the people of a similar skill level, and so on.That's why they usually flight players in handicap events into handicap ranges rather than one big pool. If you're going to do that, might as well use ratings ranges and let people play straight up against those in the same range like we do in competitive disc golf.
If you're talking about golf just there, it's not accurate at all. The "clipboard" ratings have a significant effect. We've got courses 500 yards shorter rated two strokes higher and 15 slope higher. A wide open course with minimal rough will see significant differences in both rating and slope than a tight course with ponds, streams, trees, faster, more undulating greens, thick rough, etc.The ball golf system seems decent despite these flaws for a couple reasons. Effective course length plus the fixed factor of 40.4 for shots around the green are such overwhelming elements impacting course ratings that all of the mumbo jumbo of the clipboard raters doesn't impact the rating that much, perhaps +/- 1 shot or so out of 70 or so.
Flaws in the ratings system:
-Higher rated field = Higher ratings for everyone
-Too much reliance on TD reports
It's never "the same conditions" even on the same day.
We've discovered there's no slope in disc golf. In other words, the average bogey disc golfer (and any player rating for that matter) has been shown to average the same score on a 55 SSA course regardless if it's open, moderate or heavily wooded or has long water carries.
Ball golf might see an opportunty for improvement if we get the chance to show them how to do it using dynamic versus static calculations.
BTW, we believe slope will not be needed if the calculations were done dynamically.
We've discovered there's no slope in disc golf. In other words, the average bogey disc golfer (and any player rating for that matter) has been shown to average the same score on a 55 SSA course regardless if it's open, moderate or heavily wooded or has long water carries.
The reason slope is needed in ball golf is likely inaccuracies in setting the course rating in the first place. Get that corrected and we believe slope would disappear.