Schusterick close to falling putt?

[Aim For The Chains]

By "parallel to the basket" I assume you mean walking at a right angle (perpendicular) to the line from the basket to your lie. In that case you don't advance closer to the pin in the process of walking through your lie so there's no violation.

but how is it any more balanced?

 

[mashnut]

Yet Feldberg was on the board of directors when he posted that if I remember correctly. Hence the problem when you have a elected member of the PDGA AND the PDGA rules committee not agreeing.

Hence why I will always say, Judgement rules are NOT RULES!!! And why this is so frustrating because it would be so simple to clearly define the rule and not leave it up to ambiguity...but God knows why they don't.

Just because someone's on the board of directors doesn't mean they sit in on all the rules committee meetings, and it doesn't mean they should necessarily be the one trying to clarify rules issues.

It's pretty tough to legislate out every bit of subjectivity from any sport's rule book (look at any major sport, there's controversy over rules interpretations all the time in baseball, basketball and football). The easy way to get rid of this particular controversy is to just eliminate the 10m circle altogether, allow putt jumps (not jump putts) anywhere.

but how is it any more balanced?

That's irrelevant. You don't have to show balance if you don't move toward the hole. You can fall backward or sideways in the act of putting, just not forward.

 

[Harrishabitat]

Just because someone's on the board of directors doesn't mean they sit in on all the rules committee meetings, and it doesn't mean they should necessarily be the one trying to clarify rules issues.

It's pretty tough to legislate out every bit of subjectivity from any sport's rule book (look at any major sport, there's controversy over rules interpretations all the time in baseball, basketball and football). The easy way to get rid of this particular controversy is to just eliminate the 10m circle altogether, allow putt jumps (not jump putts) anywhere.

Oh trust me I agree with you, but you have to admit it can cause ALOT of confusion when you have someone like that putting different information out there. If I remember the video in question, it was a clinic and he was presenting it like it was official...there wasn't a "This is just my opinion". You just can't do something like that when you are a person in that position...but I digress LOL.

Personally I think you could just have the rule say both feet (or supporting contacts with the ground) must come to rest behind your lie inside 10m. When you say things like "demonstrating balance" it just leaves such a large opening for different opinions and people to use it against other players. And yes I have had this happen before in events when someone said, you didn't demonstrate balance there...

 

[mashnut]

Oh trust me I agree with you, but you have to admit it can cause ALOT of confusion when you have someone like that putting different information out there. If I remember the video in question, it was a clinic and he was presenting it like it was official...there wasn't a "This is just my opinion". You just can't do something like that when you are a person in that position...but I digress LOL.

Personally I think you could just have the rule say both feet (or supporting contacts with the ground) must come to rest behind your lie inside 10m. When you say things like "demonstrating balance" it just leaves such a large opening for different opinions and people to use it against other players. And yes I have had this happen before in events when someone said, you didn't demonstrate balance there...

Sure, but you say both feet come to rest you have the exact same problem. Somebody does a jump, taps both feet behind their mini like a WR going out of bounds then falls forward, and you're back to the same problem, just with "at rest" instead of "demonstrate balance" as the point of interpretation.

The top pros all pretty much play by the same rules and enforce things similarly, the rest of us are either playing for plastic or playing for fun. Just because the rules for playground basketball aren't consistent with how things are enforced in the NBA (which is a whole other consistency issue) doesn't mean that it's not fun or that there's a problem with the rule book itself.

 

[ed IV]

...you made a 10mm put jeff?!? ifnso I quit.

 

[lemonadestandguy]

Feldberg video in question. at 37:00. he definitely says it like it is a rule and that Will's putt would be a falling putt.

 

[GripEnemy]

I would not call him on that personally but understand the questioning...the putt you mentioned at 7:15 it almost looks as though he knows it and try's to act nonchalant. For a more touchy subject:


Is that how most courses I've never played are?

I'm 14 minutes in and considering turning it off Like mentioned in the "US courses breakdown" thread it would be exponentially more entertaining (to me) to watch these guys play Iron Hill. Not a troll post but flame away!

 

[JoakimBL]

Feldberg video in question. at 37:00. he definitely says it like it is a rule and that Will's putt would be a falling putt.

That still does not make it correct. If people would just read the damned rulebook ...

 

[GripEnemy]

Missed my edit window sorry for the double.

Is that how most courses ELITE PROS ARE PLAYING looks? I know there's woods and intense foliage across the map, just seems to me like any time I watch a lead card at a relatively major event it's similar to this open...stuff.

 

[Horsman]

Missed my edit window sorry for the double.

Is that how most courses ELITE PROS ARE PLAYING looks? I know there's woods and intense foliage across the map, just seems to me like any time I watch a lead card at a relatively major event it's similar to this open...stuff.

Well its tough to film in the highly wooded places.

 

[Horsman]

but how is it any more balanced?

At this point Im starting to think your trolling real hard.

 

[br2526]

This is why completely revamping the rulebook is high up on the long list of things to do to get disc golf to the next level.

When it comes to such an important rule like this (you putt on every hole), it should be clear and easily explained.

I've seen multiple players, who have played forever, have trouble explaining this to new players. Hell, this is a 3 page discussion about it among disc golf nerds on a disc golf forum.

Getting 'one disc/one beer' players over the hump to where they are buying discs, bags, and gear is one of the most important things needed for sport growth.

If I am new like them, and someone comes to me and tries to explain all the stuff in this thread, it's a turn off.


As to the OP.
He's definitely demonstrating balance.

 

[JC17393]

QA 37 is perhaps the most poorly written (or poorly thought out) Q&A on the books. There is no way that the act of retrieving the marker disc alone can be considered a demonstration of full control of balance. Yet reading that Q&A would imply that to be the case. It is extremely easy to reach down for the marker and pick it up as you fall forward. And QA 37 would have you believe that by merely getting the marker off the ground before you make contact with the playing surface in front of the lie is enough to "demonstrate full control of balance" and negate any potential violation the fall would incur. That's bad.

Frankly, I'd argue that the action of picking up the mini violates the stance rule more so than it satisfies it. Rule 802.04 D states "upporting point contact closer to the target than the rear edge of the marker disc after the disc has been released is a stance violation". Wouldn't picking up the marker be an act of contact closer to the target than the rear edge of the marker disc, since, you know, the entirety of the disc is closer to the target than its rear edge? If one hasn't otherwise demonstrated balance, then that contact would be illegal, IMO.

I'm not saying that my interpretation is the way to go, but I think the rule (not the QA) backs my interpretation up more so than the QA interpretation.


As for Feldberg, he's a blowhard. What he says in that video is a perfect example of that. He throws out a bunch of BS and passes it off as official by playing the "I'm on the PDGA Board" card (which he liked to play often and usually in entirely inappropriate situations). There was never any change in the rule to require two feet down nor was there any official "we're cracking down on these violations" edict for the tour in any year I can remember. He sounds like the jackass MLB or NFL officials saying that one rule or another is going to be a "point of emphasis" before the season then it's forgotten and business as usual three games into the schedule.

 

[Horsman]

To me, Will is walking a fine line in that putt. Where it looks like he has control because of how well he plays it off but at the same time it to tough to tell weather or not he actually has control. I wouldn't call him on it and Im going to go ahead and say that he was fine since he was playing with the biggest rules freak on tour in Nikko. If he didn't say anything then it probably not an issue.

And the only reason why this has been going on for 3 pages so far is because some people don't understand the rules or they misinterpret them. For the most part its cut and dry.

 

[br2526]

Isn't standing on one leg completely still and bending down to pick a small object off the floor; demonstrating full control of balance.
If someone said right now, hey; demonstrate full control of balance.
That is one of the things I might do.


Watching the clip again, right after the putt you can hear another thing we have that is holding the game back.
Someone saying: "We don't come out here for them, they come out here for us, so we tell them to get lost. Dude"
Douche lately?

 

[Thumber]

Isn't standing on one leg completely still and bending down to pick a small object off the floor; demonstrating full control of balance.
If someone said right now, hey; demonstrate full control of balance.
That is one of the things I might do.


Watching the clip again, right after the putt you can hear another thing we have that is holding the game back.
Someone saying: "We don't come out here for them, they come out here for us, so we tell them to get lost. Dude"
Douche lately?

That was Nikko sating that. Not sure what the context was. It sounded douche but hard to say without understanding context

 

[jjpitt29]

His act of picking up his mini is what actually causes him to lose balance. After his putt he looks very in control. The act of picking up his mini is what makes him look off balance. I wouldn't really even consider calling that a falling put. I can understand why some might think so though.

Going to chuck's/the RC's two beat count, he's no where really close to that. When he bends to pick his mini up that is his beginning movement toward the basket, which is not two beats after he lets the putt go.

As for Feldberg (I would agree with the blowhard part for most of it), but there was a relatively big debate before usdgc's a few years back on what was considered balance. And I believe that's where the "putting down both feet" argument comes from. Not saying it's right, but to put perspective on it. If will would have done that, I don't think anyone would even be questioning it.

I agree that the rule book should be tweeked a bit here. Instead of demonstrating balance I would like it to say something like, "after the disc is released, the player needs to demonstrate balance by placing both feet on the ground and pausing for a count of 2" (inside 10m). I don't think we'll ever lose all debate, but I think this would limit some of it.

 

[Tiger Aqua]

Personally I think you could just have the rule say both feet (or supporting contacts with the ground) must come to rest behind your lie inside 10m.

What about player with only one leg?

 

[The Hammer]

Isn't standing on one leg completely still and bending down to pick a small object off the floor; demonstrating full control of balance.
If someone said right now, hey; demonstrate full control of balance.
That is one of the things I might do.


Watching the clip again, right after the putt you can hear another thing we have that is holding the game back.
Someone saying: "We don't come out here for them, they come out here for us, so we tell them to get lost. Dude"
Douche lately?

I don't remember where it was said, or by who; but apparently he was talking about someone filming that kept getting in the way of the guys playing.

 

[coupe]

I agree that the rule book should be tweeked a bit here. Instead of demonstrating balance I would like it to say something like, "after the disc is released, the player needs to demonstrate balance by placing both feet on the ground and pausing for a count of 2" (inside 10m).

A count of 2 by who's clock?

Not entirely unrelated digression: Back in 6th grade, we played flag football in gym (that's P.E. for you young 'uns) one day. The gym teacher announced a 3-count rule before you can rush the quarterback. The count modifier had to be the name of an animal that started with the letter "A." His exact words: "I don't care if it's 'one armadillo, two armadillo, three armadillo,' or 'one aardvark, two aardvark, three aardvark,' or "one anaconda, two anaconda, three anaconda," as long as it begins with "A."

First time the ball is snapped, a kid on my team (Craig Walck) blurts out, "One ant, two ant, three ant," and flattens the quarterback before he'd even taken two steps.

The point being that who is counting and how they count can be more important than how high they count.

I don't have a problem with the way the rule is currently written (IMO, stance violations in the 10-20m range are a bigger issue than falling putts), but if it is rewritten, I think it would be preferable to require the thrower to re-establish a stable stance before advancing toward the target. (BTW, anyone else see the loophole in 802.04.D?)

Of course, since the problem of demonstrating/not demonstrating balance typically only occurs on putts at or near the circle's edge, the larger question that has to be asked is, do we really want, or even need, to require a player pause for a two count or perform a specified action before cleaning out the basket on a drop-in?