Pivoting on heel issues

[TrentO]

I notice all the top pros noticeably pivoting on their heel on the throw/follow thru. Occasionally it appears on the side of their foot depending on the type of shot like a anny or hyzer but never spinning around on the balls which is obviously not generating power. I have a hard time pivoting on my heel without making a conscious effort to do so and then the timing of my throw is all jacked up cause all I can think about is my heel. If I do seem to get it right I always seem to be leaning backwards and throwing it straight up which I don't normally ever have an issue with. So my questions were:
1. Is this something that people need to practice or should it happen naturally if your form is correct?
2. Am I going to lose a noticeable amount of power or distance if I'm pivoting more on the side/whole foot?
3. Is it also an injury thing so I'm not putting as much strain on my knee?
Thanks in advance for any help!

 

[Pbmercil]

1. Is this something that people need to practice or should it happen naturally if your form is correct?

The heel pivot is a natural result transferring your body weight and bracing into the throw. You're not "spinning" per se so much as unloading the power generated by your lower body. If you practice spinning on your heel you are adding nothing. Practice transferring your body weight and bracing it on your plant leg, an your heel will start to pivot in order to unload all the tension generated in your leg.

 

[Mornius]

3. Is it also an injury thing so I'm not putting as much strain on my knee?

Yes, you should pivot on a part of your foot that causes the least resistance so you don´t need your knee to do as much of the work. If you do it wrong you feel your knee after a long day of playing discgolf and it will hurt a bit. Some for other parts of your body like your elbow, if you don´t use your muscles to stop your arm before it is fully extended (you actually don´t throw with a fully extended arm) it will hurt your elbow.

 

[youdidwell]

For a long time I never did much spinning on my heel either and didn't really understand why until I found out you need to bend you knee inward on the front foot, then do the whole crush the can with your heel, into the throw. Now that I recently figured that whole sequence the spin became a more natural with the throw.

 

[PWaggoner]

Yes, you should pivot on a part of your foot that causes the least resistance so you don´t need your knee to do as much of the work. If you do it wrong you feel your knee after a long day of playing discgolf and it will hurt a bit. Some for other parts of your body like your elbow, if you don´t use your muscles to stop your arm before it is fully extended (you actually don´t throw with a fully extended arm) it will hurt your elbow.

I'd like to hear more opinions on this. I've noticed on any throw that has ever hurt my elbow it was from a arm that straightened all the way or nearly. Not strong arming helped. Working on my follow threw helped too. I haven't hurt myself in awhile.

Do you guys resist the arm straightening or is a timing issue? If I remember correctly Blake t said you wouldn't be able to hold onto a disc before your arm straightens completely. Correct me if I'm wrong. I'll have to go digging on dgr and will take many hours of getting sidetracked.

 

[slowplastic]

Pbmercil is entirely correct.

It's not that you should simply rotate on the heel...it's that when you brace into your instep of the plant foot you naturally load into the heel and that's where the weight ends up...so you pivot around it. If you get up onto your toes you're tipping over the front and lots of issues happen.

Work on bracing and the heel pivot will happen.

 

[slowplastic]

Do you guys resist the arm straightening or is a timing issue? If I remember correctly Blake t said you wouldn't be able to hold onto a disc before your arm straightens completely. Correct me if I'm wrong. I'll have to go digging on dgr and will take many hours of getting sidetracked.

Timing/positioning issue. Everything should be going forward/outwards...and when done right everything lines up and flows. The elbow should never be able to fully open, and you should be thinking about swinging the shoulder open rather than thinking about the elbow.

 

[Pbmercil]

I'd like to hear more opinions on this. I've noticed on any throw that has ever hurt my elbow it was from a arm that straightened all the way or nearly. Not strong arming helped. Working on my follow threw helped too. I haven't hurt myself in awhile.

Do you guys resist the arm straightening or is a timing issue? If I remember correctly Blake t said you wouldn't be able to hold onto a disc before your arm straightens completely. Correct me if I'm wrong. I'll have to go digging on dgr and will take many hours of getting sidetracked.

I don't really think that's true. The only time I've ever had issues with elbow soreness was when I was slamming my arm all the way open while keeping my shoulders closed. Since I don't make a habit of throwing like that its never been an issue.

 

[Pbmercil]

3. Is it also an injury thing so I'm not putting as much strain on my knee?

I forgot about this part. IF you are getting a powerful brace, then yes. Not unloading on your heel is opening yourself up to MAJOR injury potential. But if your just spinning out on the ball/side of your foot, then you're probably not getting any kind of brace, so you're not risking injury.

 

[Dan Ensor]

I'm pretty sure in one of the articles on DGR, (maybe Distance with Dunipace?) Dave says there's a way to pivot on the ball of your foot (or just more towards the toes, generally) that doesn't put too much strain on the knee.

 

[sidewinder22]

I notice all the top pros noticeably pivoting on their heel on the throw/follow thru. Occasionally it appears on the side of their foot depending on the type of shot like a anny or hyzer but never spinning around on the balls which is obviously not generating power. I have a hard time pivoting on my heel without making a conscious effort to do so and then the timing of my throw is all jacked up cause all I can think about is my heel. If I do seem to get it right I always seem to be leaning backwards and throwing it straight up which I don't normally ever have an issue with. So my questions were:
1. Is this something that people need to practice or should it happen naturally if your form is correct?
2. Am I going to lose a noticeable amount of power or distance if I'm pivoting more on the side/whole foot?
3. Is it also an injury thing so I'm not putting as much strain on my knee?
Thanks in advance for any help!

1. It's more of a bi-product of maintaining good athletic balance and posture and sequence - The heel(weight) should land forward before you really start swinging. Balance should always be on the toes in a quick ready position, not an immoveable powerful flat-footed horse-stance. Posture should always be dynamically stacked to support a ton of weight. The pivot happens so you can maintain dynamic balance toward your toes while your weight shifts into the heel and braces during the swing, then back to the toes in the finish position.

2/3.There are different ways to pivot the foot and some players actually vary depending on the shot/balance, although all require heel to land/brace before the hit. The more stable you can keep your foot and ankle the more power and consistency you can likely produce, but also likely to produce more wear and tear. IMO the heel pivot is the least stressful. There's also trade offs on different pivots. Heel pivot creates a sharper arc and faster acceleration. Toe and roll over pivot (Wiggins / Jarvis twins) creates a wider arc and longer acceleration.

 

[TrentO]

Thanks everyone for the responses the natural result of good form would be the heel pivot is kinda what I was thinking. I just need to stop thinking about doing it and know that if I'm doing what I'm supposed to that it'll happen. The other major problem in my game is watching all of sw22 videos as well as unihyzerbomber's and taking pieces and trying to implement them into my throw and its starts to feel robotic, like I'm performing 5 or 6 parts of a throw and trying to put them together instead of one fluid motion. I'd imagine there's a lot of people that feel this way.

 

[sidewinder22]

Practice is what makes everything smooth and fluid. Go throw some sledgehammers around, should be auto smooth.

 

[TrentO]

Haha hey if it helps I'm game. Tomorrow I'll be out back chucking some hammers around like a champion!

 

[DiscFifty]

Practice is what makes everything smooth and fluid. Go throw some sledgehammers around, should be auto smooth.

Your right foot is cemented and does not move, rotate at all. Is that right for this drill?

 

[Mushin No Shin]

Oops

 

[sidewinder22]

Your right foot is cemented and does not move, rotate at all. Is that right for this drill?

Yes. Im not generating enough speed to pivot and the release/hammer carries out so much momentum.

 

[mcrow24]

The pivot has has been huge in my game. Slowly, I'm getting better at turning on my plant heel and powering my hips through as well to get a "snap" and follow through.

First started out I was lucky to hit 200 feet because it was all arm and the wrong disc angle. Now I pivot and whip around on my heel and follow threw and I'm getting to 300 feet or so on a good drive. Another couple of months I might make 325-350.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

The pivot has has been huge in my game. Slowly, I'm getting better at turning on my plant heel and powering my hips through as well to get a "snap" and follow through.

First started out I was lucky to hit 200 feet because it was all arm and the wrong disc angle. Now I pivot and whip around on my heel and follow threw and I'm getting to 300 feet or so on a good drive. Another couple of months I might make 325-350.

Keep in mind that the pivot is to release your brace against your plant foot.

You want to let your foot and leg accept the power... shift INTO your plant foot and brace against it.

You don't want to be pivoting open early.

 

[mcrow24]

Keep in mind that the pivot is to release your brace against your plant foot.

You want to let your foot and leg accept the power... shift INTO your plant foot and brace against it.

You don't want to be pivoting open early.

Definitely, you want to pivot to be a result of the plant and follow through. If you are not generating force over the planted foot, pivoting on the plant foot would be pointless. From what I was told the pivot is to make for a better follow through and makes it easier on the knee and shoulder. Of course you can't maximize drives without a good follow through and it's always good to save on the joints.