DiscGolfPark USA

[heartman]

Discgolfpark >>>>>>>> American Disc Golf Tour



... seriously, that's all that really matters :thmbup:

 

[Pbmercil]

Can you give us some info as to how they are framed out, the underlying surface (ground or plywood?) etc and a description of the turf? It looks like shag carpet turf on the vids.

Inquiring minds want to know.

First we level the area that gets the pad. Bobcat does the heavy lifting but a lot of,the work is by hand. The frame of 2x4s does down (don't remember the dimensions off hand, 6x10 foot ish, the pads are huge). The frame is filled halfway with dirt then tamped. The frame is then overfilled with crushed rock and tamped until smooth and level with the framing. Then the turf goes down and is screwed into the frame. More crushed rock and the tamper are used to cover the side of the frame and create a smooth grade and elliminate any step up to the pad. Then the pad gets about a pound of sand dumped on it and is playable. It's labor intensive but pretty slick. 4 or 5 guys and a couple of big machines and you have a playable pad in about an hour

It's hard to decribe the turf. It feels similar to modern field turf, but the fibers are not as dense. I played on them today and really enoyed it. When you stand on them the first time the cushioning feeling compared to concrete is obvious. No real adjustment needed from playing on concrete. If all the courses I played were these pads id probably experiment with some type of turf shoe.

 

[DavidSauls]

Yeah, that's fine, but again, in my OP I was talking about land that ISN'T already dedicated as a public-use park that has lots of concrete and blacktop, and the possibilty of the turf being more attractive than concrete to 'other' landowners/land use parameters. That is all.

But whatevs. I guess I don't particularly care, either, it just seemed more interesting than arguing about the price of premium plastic.

I agree completely.

I'm less certain of the overall environmental value of this turf vs. concrete, or how much that matters in most places. Certainly, there are some places where it'll be better.

 

[DavidSauls]

It's hard to decribe the turf. It feels similar to modern field turf, but the fibers are not as dense. I played on them today and really enoyed it. When you stand on them the first time the cushioning feeling compared to concrete is obvious. No real adjustment needed from playing on concrete. If all the courses I played were these pads id probably experiment with some type of turf shoe.

Thanks for that description. Now I can get that "astroturf" image out of my mind.

 

[scarpfish]

The goal is 500 DGP courses installed by 2020.

You do realize that starting today and going through the end of 2020, that's a course installed every 3.7 days?

 

[timg]

For those asking about how the pads are installed, etc. Here's a link with installation instructions:

http://www.discgolfpark.net/discgolfpark/installation-instructions/

 

[Jenga54]

I would expect DiscGolfPark to be working on securing some Primo Land potentials to build themselves a couple DGWT sites, designed specifically for WT events, room for spectators, well designed greens that don't require small baskets or windmills attached... So that we can have some real awesome viewing experiences!!

 

[halfchub]

What a fantastic way to grow the sport. I love it.

 

[discRabbit]

d0uble

 

[discRabbit]

You do realize that starting today and going through the end of 2020, that's a course installed every 3.7 days?

Oh snap, math brings down the hammer of reality opcorn:

 

[jaos]

Turf is pretty common in Finland. If it's installed properly, it's much better than concrete. And DGP's teepads are usually pretty big, so that's a plus. In some YouTube clips, even from big US competitions, pads seem awfully small.

 

[SpringDgLover]

I like this idea, I really do. I just don't know if the US is quite ready for big business disc golf. Being that I'm a course designer myself and have actively tried to convince City's, Home Owner's Associations and Municipalities with very little luck, while offering my services for free. I find it hard to believe these same entities will drop big bucks to a company for something they rarely ever want. I'm not saying it won't happen as it has been shown on a the rare occasion that some of these groups are convinced DG is a good thing, but for it to happen consistently and profitably seems like a long way off. Maybe I'm missing something and these issues are already being tackled by DiscGolfPark, but I'd love to hear valid solutions to these issues and not "it will happen, because it happened Finland" Rhetoric.

 

[DavidSauls]

You do realize that starting today and going through the end of 2020, that's a course installed every 3.7 days?

True, and I'm sure they'll strike out on the first 3.7 day period.

But it's a big country. That's 2 per state, per year. Or, spread more evenly, about 1.2 per Congressional district over the 5 years. So, for my own example, South Carolina's share would be about 8 total in that time. Ambitious, but possible.

 

[SpringDgLover]

True, and I'm sure they'll strike out on the first 3.7 day period.

But it's a big country. That's 2 per state, per year. Or, spread more evenly, about 1.2 per Congressional district over the 5 years. So, for my own example, South Carolina's share would be about 8 total in that time. Ambitious, but possible.

To be fair they stated that was worldwide and not US specific. I have a hard time believing they will get anywhere near that number if limited to the States.

 

[Jenga54]

I like this idea, I really do. I just don't know if the US is quite ready for big business disc golf. Being that I'm a course designer myself and have actively tried to convince City's, Home Owner's Associations and Municipalities with very little luck, while offering my services for free. I find it hard to believe these same entities will drop big bucks to a company for something they rarely ever want. I'm not saying it won't happen as it has been shown on a the rare occasion that some of these groups are convinced DG is a good thing, but for it to happen consistently and profitably seems like a long way off. Maybe I'm missing something and these issues are already being tackled by DiscGolfPark, but I'd love to hear valid solutions to these issues and not "it will happen, because it happened Finland" Rhetoric.

The thing they have going for them is a very refined sales pitch. I have also gone a few years pushing at city board/park board meetings and come up empty, also working for free.

Some cities would rather pay lots of money to a business like this than take the chance giving a large swath of land to some dude that wants to play frisbee and kick everyone out. They don't blink at a $150k playground system, it way more about the sales pitch. If it looks like "Big Business" the cities might take us a bit more seriously, which is awesome.

 

[DavidSauls]

To be fair they stated that was worldwide and not US specific. I have a hard time believing they will get anywhere near that number if limited to the States.

Probably not, but it may also depend on how big their business/organization gets. Their website shows 9 representatives in the U.S.; if each one puts in 10 courses per year, they've got it. If they expand to 30 representatives, and each one puts in 3 courses per year, they've got it.

I'd bet against it, just because of my normal skeptical nature, fueled by the number of grand ventures I've seen fizzle over the past 20 years. But I wouldn't bet more than I can afford to lose, because it's not beyond possibility.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Id be curious to hear what some of the bigger designers around the US think about it all who have been basically doing this for years now. Why are they not involved? Seems odd.

 

[chris deitzel]

Curious who will be the construction crew running big equipment?

I know the last course I built took nearly 2 years of being there 3-5 days a week with over 1000 hours of excavator work needed. And all work with power tools had to be done by their union workers.

I'm excited to see how you guys make out over the next year.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

I like this idea, I really do. I just don't know if the US is quite ready for big business disc golf. Being that I'm a course designer myself and have actively tried to convince City's, Home Owner's Associations and Municipalities with very little luck, while offering my services for free. I find it hard to believe these same entities will drop big bucks to a company for something they rarely ever want. I'm not saying it won't happen as it has been shown on a the rare occasion that some of these groups are convinced DG is a good thing, but for it to happen consistently and profitably seems like a long way off..

Apparently places do drop some decent $ for a real designer.

Those who are interested in becoming professional designers should consider joining the Disc Golf Course Designers DGCD group. Along with resources useful for helping with design projects, members have discussions regarding fees and issues regarding client/designer contracts. http://www.discgolfcoursedesigners.org/discgolfwiki/index.php5

Typical fees for an 18-hole course range between $1000-$5000 plus travel expenses and the fees usually run from 7% to 20% of the project cost. Some designers like me charge by the day/hour ($400/day) and some on a per hole basis up to $200/hole. For clients who prefer a fixed amount bid, we figure out what the worst case might be and provide a "not to exceed" number but then bill them for actual time and expenses.

The factors that can impact the fee, some significantly, are how wooded the course terrain is and how much clearing is required, regional differences (New England, highest fees I've heard) and how much the designer is willing to work for based on resume and experience. Also, the fee may include a variety of other services besides design such as GPS mapping the site, oversight of or actual installation work, doing signage or consulting on operating facility/pay-for-play.

I think the lowest fee I ever charged, when I did charge a fee (more free than fee projects over the years), was $125 for a 9-hole course on a completely open site around some ballfields. It was two hours at $50/hr plus $25 for gas money. I marked blue and red tees plus pin placements with paint and flags. They got a decent course that couldn't have been much better considering the site and boundaries: http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=1995&mode=ci At the other end of the scale, I probably would have billed around $7500 for the design, mapping and installation work (lots of chainsawing with Matt Gillis) I did for the Steady Ed course at the IDGC but that was all volunteer work by Tom Monroe and me.

 

[Pbmercil]

Curious who will be the construction crew running big equipment?

I know the last course I built took nearly 2 years of being there 3-5 days a week with over 1000 hours of excavator work needed. And all work with power tools had to be done by their union workers.

I'm excited to see how you guys make out over the next year.

I don't know how all the courses work, but I know at Langley all Allen and Jason had to do was flag the keeper trees and all the clearing work was contracted out. So the real labor by them was confind to designing the holes and installing pads signs and baskets. They went from sales pitch to soft opened course in 4 months, which is pretty impressive