Val drops Innova?

[runningDoc]

it happened with women's tennis. I think the U.S. Open was the first major to do it in the early 90's, but they decided that men's and women's champions deserved the same prize money.

you can make the same argument that men's tennis is harder (they play 5 sets), more athletic, higher/more competition... but by that time actual prize money was so dwarfed by sponsorship money you could see the trend that it didn't matter what the gender was... women's tennis was a potential money making bonanza (attire, shoes, racquets, other sponsorships) way back in the early 90's.

Back during that era...There was a great batch of women tennis superstars: Graf, Seles, Capriati, Sabintini, Navratalova, Sanchez etc *that were the same women at the finals of 99% of the tournaments (kind of like women's disc golf today). I think it was a genius move for top tournaments to give them the same prize money as the men...because in the end at that level prize money was moot - even if substantial amounts comparing to what the companies/federations were making on the bottom line.

and now today you have players like Serena, and before the scandal (Sharapova) just raking in the cash though sponsoship deals.. even more than the men sometimes.

so if you have companies like innova doing well and focusing their lucrative contracts to only the very best like McBeth... maybe it would be a smart move to give their top female player like Val (who also is a multiple champion) a comparable contract.... not just for optics, but to get ahead of the possible trend of more females getting into disc golf (what seems like a great untapped market).

It may sound absurd to some but lets say Paul McBeth gets that $500,000k three year contract from innova, why not show a little love to the other 4x women's champ and give her a $200k three year contract? Give her a something guaranteed to be profitable like the Aviar P&A (to where dudes can't avoid buying because they don't want a girl disc). You might start a huge trend of really getting women disc golfers to jump into the sport.

*the weird thing? I'm not even into tennis. But they did such a good job of advertising and promoting their stars that I still remember those 90's women superstars! Just like I know about those early 90's mens tennis superstars like sampras, lendel, becker, agassi, edberg.. etc...

 

[PMcBeth]

Well imagine this. If any woman athlete received the same amount of "support" and marketing that Paul does, maybe she could earn the supporting company more money than Paul does. We don't know if sh can, because this doesn't exist. That's the point.

#1 I'm pretty sure no where in the contracts does it say we can't talk about our contracts.

#2 I'd argue the fact you were promoted just as much if not more when you joined the Innova Celebrity Team than most of the other women. It didn't seem like an issue then because you were making "the needle" move.

#3 I respect Val's move and if she feels that is right then good for her. I do wish the women's field was as big as the Open division but unfortunately its not.

 

[jvphobic]

How many championships does it take for a man to get a signature disc? Feldberg, Avery, Barry all got a disc from Innova with their first win. Did Val get one on her 1st or 2nd OR 3rd championship?

Those that have listened to me on SmashBoxx know I have brought this up before, Val was slighted in my eyes for years. As are all the women champions from any manufacturer that don't have a disc.

Val is very smart, I am sure she wasn't asking for McBeth money. But think of all the money and prestige she has missed out on over the past 10 years of not having a disc (or 3) with her name on it. It is LITERALLY the least they could do.

I wish Val all the luck, and I am sure we will talk with her soon on SmashBoxxTV for some reason.

 

[Finny]

from my knowledge Val and Nate get the exact same contract.... so in my eyes Val gets more than Nate since her making Top 5 in all events is more likely.

Both have a tour series discs as well. Nate's firebird out sell's my discs at times.

First, thanks for weighing in. Second, that's all good info to know.

But third, she's a 4x World champ. Unless Innova wants to publicly say winning Worlds means less for a woman, her contract should be better than his at a base level. Now, if the Sexton Firebird outsold the Val Tern, I'd have no issue. And my guess is that she wouldn't either. But how is she supposed to deal with Innova giving her brother a signature Destroyer while she has no sig disc at all? 4-1 at Worlds is a big disparity.

What would you do in her situation, Paul? That's a real question. I don't have an answer, but I'd love to hear yours.

 

[ODRB]

Paul and Holly:

Thanks for joining in and sharing your thoughts, trolls be damned.

Actual insight from those who might have some is pretty rare around here.

 

[corndog23]

Why does 4x world champ Val have the same contract as zero time world champ Nate Sexton? I love Nate, but come on. Johnny V is spot on.

 

[PMcBeth]

First, thanks for weighing in. Second, that's all good info to know.

But third, she's a 4x World champ. Unless Innova wants to publicly say winning Worlds means less for a woman, her contract should be better than his at a base level. Now, if the Sexton Firebird outsold the Val Tern, I'd have no issue. And my guess is that she wouldn't either. But how is she supposed to deal with Innova giving her brother a signature Destroyer while she has no sig disc at all? 4-1 at Worlds is a big disparity.

What would you do in her situation, Paul? That's a real question. I don't have an answer, but I'd love to hear yours.

No where in our contracts does it say World Champions get signature discs. At least the one of mine i just looked at, I'm sure others can attest to that as well.

 

[Finny]

No where in our contracts does it say World Champions get signature discs. At least the one of mine i just looked at, I'm sure others can attest to that as well.

Doesn't really help her deal with Avery getting a sig disc (and a big seller at that) with one Worlds win and she doesn't get one until #4.

Given that you walked away from product-only sponsorships recently, I'd really like to know what you'd do if you were Val.

 

[Finny]

Why does 4x world champ Val have the same contract as zero time world champ Nate Sexton? I love Nate, but come on. Johnny V is spot on.

Totally agree.

 

[Finny]

... but by that time actual prize money was so dwarfed by sponsorship money you could see the trend that it didn't matter what the gender was...

I think this is a good analogy, but in the opposite direction. The monetary stakes are so relatively small that it doesn't cost much to have equality. Which makes it a worse decision to continue paying women less.

 

[PMcBeth]

Doesn't really help her deal with Avery getting a sig disc (and a big seller at that) with one Worlds win and she doesn't get one until #4.

Given that you walked away from product-only sponsorships recently, I'd really like to know what you'd do if you were Val.

I said it before I respect her decision, She was leaving Innova before she had 4 World titles.
Kenny and Barry have how many Masters World titles? They didn't receive new signature discs... It's hard when you play in a Protected Division.

I have 4 Open World Titles, Nowhere does it say Men's World Champion, there is no such thing.

I think Val is an amazing ambassador for Women's disc golf, I hope she can accomplish what she is looking for.

 

[Inverted]

How many championships does it take for a man to get a signature disc? Feldberg, Avery, Barry all got a disc from Innova with their first win. Did Val get one on her 1st or 2nd OR 3rd championship?

Those that have listened to me on SmashBoxx know I have brought this up before, Val was slighted in my eyes for years. As are all the women champions from any manufacturer that don't have a disc.

Val is very smart, I am sure she wasn't asking for McBeth money. But think of all the money and prestige she has missed out on over the past 10 years of not having a disc (or 3) with her name on it. It is LITERALLY the least they could do.

I wish Val all the luck, and I am sure we will talk with her soon on SmashBoxxTV for some reason.

I would love to see more coverage, especially live coverage of women's pro events. I encourage all the content providers to lead the charge to get women's disc golf equal exposure.

 

[Finny]

I said it before I respect her decision, She was leaving Innova before she had 4 World titles.
Kenny and Barry have how many Masters World titles? They didn't receive new signature discs... It's hard when you play in a Protected Division.

I have 4 Open World Titles, Nowhere does it say Men's World Champion, there is no such thing.

I think Val is an amazing ambassador for Women's disc golf, I hope she can accomplish what she is looking for.

I mean, all due respect, but that's nonsense. And you know it. I think you're probably the best disc golfer who's ever played. But c'mon.

Her Worlds count less because she's in a "Protected Division"? You wanna tell Serena that her titles count less too?

Finally, you still haven't answered the question. What would you do if you were Val? Given the dodging you've done so far and your recent sponsorship moves, I'll hazard a guess: You'd do the same thing.

 

[corin_brown]

I'm sure most of you know, we aren't allowed to discuss the terms of our contract.

Val's not allowed to talk about the terms of a contract after that contract expires? Sounds like a non-disclosure agreement stronger than the one the contestants on The Apprentice have to sign with their blood.

from my knowledge Val and Nate get the exact same contract.... so in my eyes Val gets more than Nate since her making Top 5 in all events is more likely.

I'm confused. Nate and Val make the same, but Val is more successful so Val "gets" more? What does "get" mean in this context? If Val is more successful than Nate and they make the same money, isn't Val being UNDERpaid?

I don't know anyone personally that throws them. Now Terns...that's another story.

The Starfire is one of her long time staples. Terry Miller mentioned it again tonight on his FB feed. And I throw a Starfire (lol) - great disc.

But there's no doubt that she would have cleaned up with a sig Tern. That disc is a HUGE seller.

Point is, the Starfire didn't get plucked out of thin air. She's used one for years.

Also, speaking of Terry, he posted on FB tonight that Val's actions are not solely the result of a disc issue. Sounds like a series of slights and grievances built up over years of hard touring.

How many championships does it take for a man to get a signature disc? Feldberg, Avery, Barry all got a disc from Innova with their first win. Did Val get one on her 1st or 2nd OR 3rd championship?

Those that have listened to me on SmashBoxx know I have brought this up before, Val was slighted in my eyes for years. As are all the women champions from any manufacturer that don't have a disc.

Val is very smart, I am sure she wasn't asking for McBeth money. But think of all the money and prestige she has missed out on over the past 10 years of not having a disc (or 3) with her name on it. It is LITERALLY the least they could do.

I wish Val all the luck, and I am sure we will talk with her soon on SmashBoxxTV for some reason.

Jonny V with the wisdom, as usual.

 

[tdschrock1]

I see 2 separate issues that are being tossed around in this thread:

First: Val left Innova and cited being 'denied honors'. I think this is a vague statement that some have say is $, others say are discs and in reality is probably something else or a combination of things.

Second: Folks are speaking about the state of women's disc golf. Opinions I see range from 'Women are the minority and less valuable to the sport' to the polar opposite. Val and her parents are actively involved in this area and I look forward to hearing her opinion.

 

[PMcBeth]

I mean, all due respect, but that's nonsense. And you know it. I think you're probably the best disc golfer who's ever played. But c'mon.

Her Worlds count less because she's in a "Protected Division"? You wanna tell Serena that her titles count less too?

Finally, you still haven't answered the question. What would you do if you were Val? Given the dodging you've done so far and your recent sponsorship moves, I'll hazard a guess: You'd do the same thing.

Idk the current Tennis rankings since i don't follow closely but when Novak Djokovic was #1 he was the BEST tennis player in the World. Serena is the BEST female tennis player.

Val left for Val's reasons. If the bonuses are what I think they are for her, Money isn't the reason she left. So depending on what the issue was, I can't say whether those reasons are ones worth leaving.

 

[JedV]

#1 I'm pretty sure no where in the contracts does it say we can't talk about our contracts.

#2 I'd argue the fact you were promoted just as much if not more when you joined the Innova Celebrity Team than most of the other women. It didn't seem like an issue then because you were making "the needle" move.

#3 I respect Val's move and if she feels that is right then good for her. I do wish the women's field was as big as the Open division but unfortunately its not.

Oh SNAP!

 

[holly7845]

Well McBeth didn't just walk into a big contract.

He had to prove he could sell product (and win).

Usually companies aren't in the business of putting the cart before the horse.

Val has been playing for over a decade. I'm pretty sure giving her the honors she's referring too, wouldn't be putting the cart before the horse.

 

[AzteC]

This isn't about men vs women or descrimination. Its about who makes the most money for their respected company. Who is bringing the most income to the company? I would honestly say someone like Dustin Keegan brings in more money than a Val does, yet Val arguably works harder at the sport and had more tourny success in her division. Dustin is going to draw more 'guys' to buy more discs through recommendation/performance then Val is going to bring in from both guys AND girls via recommendation/performance. I cant prove that notion, but I think its true. If that stands to be true, women don't 'deserve' anything more in terms of monetary compensation.

When I interviewed for all my previous jobs I always told the company what I could give them, not asked what they could give me. That almost always landed me the job, because they knew I was serious about producing capital for their company, which would in turn make me more valuable than the next guy.

 

[holly7845]

http://fortune.com/2015/07/15/male-models-pay/

This article is a good metaphor.

Can we keep the focus on Disc Golf.

That didn't take long.opcorn: