[Innova] What Discs Does Innova Need To OOP

[Broken Shoulder]

I guess I need someone to identify for me the correct number of molds and plastic options that every disc golf manufacturer needs to have. Someone should be able to because it's a never-ending bitchfest about Innova offering too many molds in too many plastics, and Prodigy having an enormous gap in their driver lineup and everything else in-between.

So what's the number?

 

[World Eater]

Discontinue the Roc?!?! The choice of champions, and the finest mid range disc they make?!?!
Laughable.

I'm sure innova would discontinue molds if they were no longer financially viable. Since they still produce all these discs, I'm betting they all are profitable molds. It's simple business really, if it makes money, keep doing it.

Ya, I think Innova needs to take one for the team and help their players join the current millennium in disc golf by discontinuing possibly their best selling disc short of the Destroyer and Aviar.

I know its going to hurt financially, and it will seem like a crazy move at first, but everyone will be better off in the long run.

 

[DanJon]

Ya, I think Innova needs to take one for the team and help their players join the current millennium in disc golf by discontinuing possibly their best selling disc short of the Destroyer and Aviar.

I know its going to hurt financially, and it will seem like a crazy move at first, but everyone will be better off in the long run.

Why stop there? Definitely get rid of the Destroyer, Firebird, Thunderbird, Teebird, Leopard and every variation of Aviar.

 

[World Eater]

Why stop there? Definitely get rid of the Destroyer, Firebird, Thunderbird, Teebird, Leopard and every variation of Aviar.

1. None of those are terrible, like the Roc
2. I dont suggest replacing a disc until it is obsolete, like the Roc

you could try arguing that the River is a better Leopard, but I'm not sure you'd win..

Not that I expect to win this fight either. I know some people cant be talked out of their habits which is why I'm calling on Innova directly to help people move on. 0.O

 

[slowplastic]

Vulcan (there should not be a need for super fast and understable)

I think some of their other discs (Daedalus) are even more flippy. I thought the same way too though, other than the 300-330' crowd who love to anhyzer fast discs like this to get another 15-20'. But, if you haven't tried throwing at altitude, these fast flippy discs start to act fast and, well, not so flippy. A Vulcan starts to fly like a beat in Destroyer when you add 4 or 5 thousand feet, although it still won't tolerate torque and wind quite as well.

 

[jdw80550]

This would be my recommendation. Not the most current flight chart, but close enough. Innova has the Pro shop and can rerun molds on a specialty basis. These would the discs I see used the least in my area or discs that have an update counterpart. (XD-Wedge)

 

[ThrowBot]

This would be my recommendation. Not the most current flight chart, but close enough. Innova has the Pro shop and can rerun molds on a specialty basis. These would the discs I see used the least in my area or discs that have an update counterpart. (XD-Wedge)

Mostly agree, although there's no way the entire Speed 13 row gets a pass, especially since they have to cram the Shryke in there somewhere. I feel like Dominator and Groove could get killed off and not too many folks would lose sleep over it.

Side topic:
Innova seems to have gotten a lot of hate over recent years for cramming their lineup with overlapping options, but look at the Speed 6 row. Has that lineup changed since the 90's? Viper, Whippet, Gazelle, Cheetah, Leopard...those are all super OG molds.

 

[SD86]

This would be my recommendation. Not the most current flight chart, but close enough. Innova has the Pro shop and can rerun molds on a specialty basis. These would the discs I see used the least in my area or discs that have an update counterpart. (XD-Wedge)

I just don't think the Viking and Archangel are going anywhere. The Archangel sells, it is popular with new DGers, kids, families, etc. The Viking is a favorite of Dave Dunipace, by his own admission; I can see a re-tooling for it and maybe bring it out in some new plastics (like STAR, perhaps?), but I don't see it going away.

 

[HERB brooks]

Like a few others have said, I would argue that they don't NEED to OOP any molds. With that being said, some consolidation to reduce clutter wouldn't hurt most people. While it sucks to see old molds fall by the wayside, Innova has filled their lineup out with plenty of redundancy and overkill.

If that's the business model they want to follow I'm okay with that. It doesn't harm me at all if people want to throw a Groove even if I never want to touch one. I imagine they would OOP molds that are don't sell and sit stagnant taking up shelf space. By making unpopular or crappy molds OOP they could make money from the collector market and the few people trying to stock up on their disc of choice that's now OOP.

 

[SD86]

Like a few others have said, I would argue that they don't NEED to OOP any molds. With that being said, some consolidation to reduce clutter wouldn't hurt most people. While it sucks to see old molds fall by the wayside, Innova has filled their lineup out with plenty of redundancy and overkill.

If that's the business model they want to follow I'm okay with that. It doesn't harm me at all if people want to throw a Groove even if I never want to touch one. I imagine they would OOP molds that are don't sell and sit stagnant taking up shelf space. By making unpopular or crappy molds OOP they could make money from the collector market and the few people trying to stock up on their disc of choice that's now OOP.

Agreed. One other consideration is a (physical) mold wearing out or breaking. Then they have to decide if it's worth the cost to order a replacement. I wonder if that is part of Discraft's reasons for taking some models OOP....

 

[jdw80550]

I just don't think the Viking and Archangel are going anywhere. The Archangel sells, it is popular with new DGers, kids, families, etc. The Viking is a favorite of Dave Dunipace, by his own admission; I can see a re-tooling for it and maybe bring it out in some new plastics (like STAR, perhaps?), but I don't see it going away.

I think it's cheap enough since it only produced in Dx for the archangel to stick around. If the Viking is one of Dave's fav's, I don't think it would go oop, but I do think it would be fine if they only available in small batches.

Personally, I don't care what they do. I can't, and don't care too, keep up with all the new discs.

I love trilogy plastic, but they now have so many molds that I don't want to try to re-tinker my bag to fit them. I wish I had more time and less back-ups.

 

[ilmcgee]

I guess I need someone to identify for me the correct number of molds and plastic options that every disc golf manufacturer needs to have. Someone should be able to because it's a never-ending bitchfest about Innova offering too many molds in too many plastics, and Prodigy having an enormous gap in their driver lineup and everything else in-between.

So what's the number?

I would start looking here for answers.

 

[Three Putt]

The only real problem with the glut of molds is on the retail end. You can't carry them all, it takes up too much space. Whatever you don't carry somebody will come in and pitch a hissy that you don't have it.

The park store I ran in the 90's carried everything on the market at the time except DGA and Wham-O. We had every Innova, Discraft, Lightning, Millennium and Gateway mold that was out. By '00, we had to start dropping discs, there were too many molds to keep it all in stock. Now there are so many more manufacturers and so many more molds that trying to figure out what to carry and what to skip is daunting even if you play and know a little about golf discs. If you are a sports store manager or park employee who doesn't play, it's impossible to do.

That's really the only downside I can see to all the molds.

 

[tbird888]

The thing I like about Innova stacking their lineup is that if I don't like the feel of a certain disc, there could be another mold that matches the numbers I want but feels more comfortable.

Regardless, you guys act like sending a disc to be OOP is some kind of personal decision. Innova's a business. If a disc doesn't sell, it doesn't get rerun. I imagine that a lot of those molds just sit on a rack so they're not gone forever.

 

[Three Putt]

Aero will never ever go OOP.

Aero was OOP when I started playing. It came back with a re-created mold in '95ish as the "Classic" Aero. The original mold was retooled into the Phenix.

Original Aero

Classic Aero

So...it already happened. It may never happen again, but it happened.

 

[ilmcgee]

The thing I like about Innova stacking their lineup is that if I don't like the feel of a certain disc, there could be another mold that matches the numbers I want but feels more comfortable.

Regardless, you guys act like sending a disc to be OOP is some kind of personal decision. Innova's a business. If a disc doesn't sell, it doesn't get rerun. I imagine that a lot of those molds just sit on a rack so they're not gone forever.

Definitely can't fault a company for stacking a lineup, especially on the little end. Producing molds that are beaded and beadless seems like a good idea for putters and mids. So many are polarized on liking/disliking beads.

 

[ILUVSMGS18]

I said that certain molds like the Cheetah, Gazelle, and Cobra just needed better plastic options, I also think that if Innova made Star Vikings and Archangels they would sell more of them as well as possibly making their way into my bag.

 

[SD86]

I said that certain molds like the Cheetah, Gazelle, and Cobra just needed better plastic options, I also think that if Innova made Star Vikings and Archangels they would sell more of them as well as possibly making their way into my bag.

I once emailed Innova about making an Archangel in Star, and they said they couldn't mold it up to fly "like an Archangel" (their words). That may have been just an excuse, of course. BTW, they do make an XT Archangel, or they did... it was listed in the Proshop.

I agree that if they would make Star Vikings, they'd get more sales. The Viking *IS* a good disc, and a Viking in Star plastic would be really good, IMHO.

 

[BrotherDave]

I don't have a problem with that many. There are a ton of them I rarely if ever see somebody throw like Daedalus, Krait, Vulcan, Dominator, Ape, TeeDevil, Lycan, Wombat, Spider, etc but I don't know if any of those are necessarily bad discs. The only ones I'd really consider is the Groove and the Wolf. I consistently find Grooves buried in deep schule nowhere near the fairway and in ponds so it is pretty obviously lousy and an inconsistent POS. Yeah, box stores carry them and folks that don't know any better keep buying them there but it's pretty rare to find somebody that replaces a Groove more than once. The Wolf is also a complete turd and its execrable quality is well documented. Saying it is a good beginner disc is like saying a Yugo is a good beginner car. Yeah, you can make it work but FFS just hand the poor noob an Aviar P&A so he'll get an idea how discs are supposed to fly while still staying on the fairway.

I disagree with any hatred of the Monarch. It is a perfectly fine disc that basically flies as advertised and is only given a bad rap b/c it feels like a Groove which doesn't fly like anything the same way twice. Wanting to OOP the Monarch just b/c it has a rim groove is like wanting to OOP anything with a Thumbtrac. The Birdie has a Thumbtrac and kind of sucks but I wouldn't want to OOP the Rhyno just the same (and I don't even like Rhynos).

The Viking is a decent disc too.

 

[DanJon]

1. None of those are terrible, like the Roc
2. I dont suggest replacing a disc until it is obsolete, like the Roc

you could try arguing that the River is a better Leopard, but I'm not sure you'd win..

Not that I expect to win this fight either. I know some people cant be talked out of their habits which is why I'm calling on Innova directly to help people move on. 0.O

Obsolete and terrible like the Roc?

That's why literally every other company has a Roc clone.

Better tell them the news.