[Innova] Aviar3

[tampabay]

Any forehand primary people throwing the AV3? How does it stack up?

I'm not primarily FH but I throw a lot of FHs. I think it's great for FH upshots and drives. I found the deeper putters are difficult to FH. You can't yank on it like you would a zone but I was able to get clean drives as well as clean upshots with it.

I will get out today and see how much I can put on it before it starts getting fussy

 

[Marmoset]

back from hiatus to read some reviews about this putter after feeling one yesterday. it feels amazing and i cant wait to throw one today after reading some of these reviews.

welcome back booter!

I just went out and threw it. It feels amazing in the hand and flies exactly how I hoped... as much as I can tell from throwing it for 10 minutes.

background- P'n'As are my bread and butter putter. I throw mostly DX P'n'As but I also bag an XT and a Champ that get used for certain things. I've been leaning on the XT more and more. Depending on how the XT beats in I might make XT my go-to. If I need more finesse I have either a Sonic or a Polecat. If I need more beef I have DX and Champ Rhynos. I expect about 280-300' from a new-ish DX or XT Aviar drive. Sometimes I see longer but I don't count on it.

The Av3 is not noticeably faster than a standard DX Aviar P'n'A IMO.
Dedicated Aviar throwers will notice a stronger fade, though. Assuming 300' of Aviar power, brand new DX P'n'As usually start breaking away from the flight line after 70-75% of the flight. It begins as a gradual pull to the left (RHBH) and gets progressively stronger the longer it stays in the air. Av3s keep this trend but start the gradual pull earlier, maybe 65-70%. If you get enough height then you will notice a substantial amount of fade at the very end. I threw a few down hill and saw DX Sanny Rhyno amounts of fade... assuming I had the height.

I can't vouch for the wind performance because there was no wind.

I got one throw out past 330' on flat ground. When thrown down hill, Av3 will flat out bomb. 400' is not at all a stretch depending on the hill of course. Just watch out for the fade at the end. You either need to aim right to accommodate the fade or give it less height.

It rolls really well, better than my DX/XT P'n'As and marginally better than my Champ. I love how slowly it stands up.

Sidearming this Av3 is about the same as P'n'As. I prefer the safety of the extra fade and overstability. But My FH is straight up TERRIBLE so if this is important to you then you might want advice from a FH dominant thrower. I expect 180-200' out of my FH and use it primarily to get out of trouble or on short shots where FH is the obvious choice.

I cant speak about overhand throws because they hurt my shoulder. I'm positive I'm doing it wrong but I haven't tried to fix it. Not a priority for me.

So my first impression is that the Av3 is basically a lower profile, nicer hand-feel version of the Champ P'n'A in my bag. She's beefier and not as glidey as a DX P'n'A.

It's still early but from where I'm sitting right now, I call it a definite win for the Innova lineup and I can't wait to throw it more. Some one disc rounds and some Av3 vs P'n'A grudge match rounds are in the immediate plans.

I know I said this before I'm especially anxious for DX/XT and Champ!!! Please please pretty please?!?!?

 

[Marmoset]

Oops, sorry for the double post but I forgot to mention that the HSS is definitely stronger than a new DX or XT P'n'A, and it appears to be even slightly stronger than my Champ which is 100% Grade A Beef. I need to throw the two side by side for a fair comparison.

I suspect this will hold up in the wind just fine and I agree with these two statements:

I'd think this disc will be a gateway for people who aren't seasoned with driving putters or only drive OS putters.

I think if people throw this disc it will gain a large following.

 

[booter]

thanks marmoset! for the review and welcoming

 

[icebat]

Can anyone who's thrown both, compare one of these to a challenger? Thinking about maybe picking up a new driving putter, but don't know how much different there would be between the two.

 

[SD86]

Can anyone who's thrown both, compare one of these to a challenger? Thinking about maybe picking up a new driving putter, but don't know how much different there would be between the two.

I've got Challengers in Titanium FLX, Pro-D, and Jawbreaker. Sadly, haven't had a chance to get a Cryztal Challenger. I have not thrown any of my Challengers with power very often, and not in a while, but I'd say they perform like P2s.

The Aviar3 is more overstable than the Challenger (as well as the P2). The Av3 also has a wee bit more "giddyup and go" than the Challenger. YMMV, of course.

 

[booter]

Well,I have to say that I am really impressed with this disc after throwing it today. Threw it side by side by side against my HB tank and my sp2. It does closest in stability to my tank but was a faster and had a little more glide. Its definitely got more hss and lss than an sp2 and feels say more comfortable. I will be picking one up for myself after getting some throws in today.

 

[Marmoset]

I played a grudge match round, Av3 vs, Champ PandA.
I'm still going to say that Av3 acts an awful lot like the Champ but there are a few notable exceptions that I noticed.
---The Av3 likes lower lines.
---The Av3 is definitely just a tic faster.
---The Av3 wants to pull off of the original flight path earlier.
---The Av3 has a little more flare at the end if you give it enough height.
---I'm still trying to figure out if the HSS is more/less/the same as the Champ PandA. Maybe just a smidge more HSS?

I originally wanted to bag a Champ PandA so that I would have an overstable complement to my DX/XT assortment. I searched for and bought my Champ PandA specifically because it had the overstable shape. There were several that I didn't buy because I thought the shape was wrong. Now that the Av3 is here, you can buy an overstable Aviar without hunting.

Putting with the Av3 was fine. I definitely had to adjust from a normal DX PandA putt but I made almost all my putts. The ones I missed hit the lollipops. To be fair, I had the exact same problem with the Champ PandA. These two discs do not have the glide of the DX PandAs so I consistently came up just a tiny bit short unless I remembered to aim higher.

The pure-distance potential is roughly the same between the two. I give the edge to the Av3 if you are on the course, though. The lower lines it likes will keep you out of trouble better than the higher lines of the Champ PandA.

All in all I'm sticking with my original assessment that this is a huge win for Innova. Disc trends seem to be going towards faster, lower profile, beadless. IMO the Av3 is *eventually* going to be more popular than the big bead for slightly overstable putter needs; it might take a while for it to catch on but I think it will eventually sell better assuming Innova sells it in some good plastics that the tourney crowd appreciates.

 

[RomServo]

I played a grudge match round, Av3 vs Champ PandA...

I didnt realize the Panda came in Champ plastic.

 

[Marmoset]

I didnt realize the Panda came in Champ plastic.

LOL
I've been writing it as "P'n'A" for years until this AM I realized it spelled PandA. Now that's in the queue for my next Sharpie effort

 

[Marmoset]

not an Aviar3 but since I mentioned that I was going to do this...
DX PandA
inspired by Laocoon and his sons

 

[hugheshilton]

inspired by Laocoon and his sons

Wow, don't see many greek/roman mythology inspired stamps outside of Innova. Nice! :thmbup:

 

[SD86]

Update: we're having some very strong, gusty winds today. I took the Av3 with my bag for a round. The Av3 did extremely well in headwinds, tailwinds, and L-R crosswinds. In R-L crosswinds with my RHBH throw, the wind got the disc and pushed it some, as it would have just about any disc, but the Av3 didn't drift TOO far. (By way of contrast, I watched a 15 ft. putt with my Classic Warden get lifted up and pushed 30 feet left from a R-L crosswind.)

The Aviar3 has caused me to take my Green Hornet as well as my Rhyno out of the bag. If I were using a full tournament bag with 20+ discs, the Rhyno would go back in, but right now I'm just not using it while the Av3 is in the bag. I'm retaining the Harp, as sometimes I need the brick to go around obstacles and find the ground, and the Av3 is a bit more glidey. But the Av3 continues to be the bee's knees.

 

[elkevo]

Marmoset answered my question on the other Aviar3 thread, as far as specs and general performance. I guess what I really want to know is the Av3 better alternative in my small bag than my Stud as a driving and approach putter?

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[Marmoset]

Marmoset answered my question on the other Aviar3 thread, as far as specs and general performance. I guess what I really want to know is the Av3 better alternative in my small bag than my Stud as a driving and approach putter?

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Neither is a bad choice, both are excellent for driving and approaching IME. I exclusively used the Studs for several months and now I'm thrashing the Aviar PandA/ Av3 combo.

What other putters and mids do you have in your bag? This might sway the recommendation one way or the other.

Also, the in-the-hand feel might sway your decision.

I don't think I could justify both in the bag at the same time.; for me it would be an either/or scenario.

 

[elkevo]

For putters, I carry the Colt and Stud and use P1x's for actual putting.

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[Marmoset]

Well that's still a tough decision.

Which do you like better for driving and approaching?
---Lower profile of the Colt/Stud combo? If you like this one better then I would stick with the Stud and skip the Av3. It definitely feels lower profile than normal PandAs but won't be mistaken for a Colt/Stud.
---Taller feel of the P1x? If you like this one better then I'd say the Av3 is right up your alley.

I thoroughly audtioned the DX & XT Stud (paired with the Colt) but ultimately gave up on it because it was not as HSS as I wanted when I was throwing 300'+ with it. I wanted 0 turn but I was seeing about -0.5 turn on the XT and -0.75 turn on the DX. The Av3 is 0 turn, maybe -0.25 turn at 300' and beyond.

I basically wanted a low profile/small diameter putter version of a DX Roc. The Stud came really close (I've heard the Gateway Chief OS is closer but haven't tried it yet) but the Av3 comes closer. If you have similar goals then the Av3 might be the choice for you.

Because the Stud was not quite what I wanted I swapped both the Stud and Colt out and went back to the Polecat/Aviar/Rhyno setup that I have been running for years. So I guess my official answer to your question is:
Yes, IMO the Av3 is better for driving and approaching. And will be even better and more versatile when we can buy them in DX or XT.

FWIW, this is how I have it set up right now:
---150g DX Polecat for slow, glidey, finessable lid goodness
---Aviar PandAs in various plastics for everything understable/stable/medium OS up to 300'
---Av3 for wind and OS putter needs, auditioning against the Champ PandA and the Champ Rhyno
---Champ Rhyno for wind and OS needs (although the Av3 looks like it will be taking many of the traditionally Rhyno shots)

 

[DavidHedvin]

Do you think any pros would use this in their bag?

Another question, why do we not see some tops pillars used colt or dorm?

Feels just like they use SP2 and (Innova players)

 

[SD86]

Do you think any pros would use this in their bag?

Another question, why do we not see some tops pillars used colt or dorm?

Feels just like they use SP2 and (Innova players)

Madison Walker (Innova FPO) uses XT Colts for her putting duties.

 

[elkevo]

Well that's still a tough decision.
...

FWIW, this is how I have it set up right now:
---150g DX Polecat for slow, glidey, finessable lid goodness
---Aviar PandAs in various plastics for everything understable/stable/medium OS up to 300'
---Av3 for wind and OS putter needs, auditioning against the Champ PandA and the Champ Rhyno
---Champ Rhyno for wind and OS needs (although the Av3 looks like it will be taking many of the traditionally Rhyno shots)

I only have room for 2 non-putting putters in my bag and I do like the deeper feel of the P1x. Maybe the Av3 and Nova (maybe) could fill my driving/approach putter needs. The Nova should be similar to the PandA, right?