Ledgestone 2017

[Steve West]

I said the same thing. It's laughable that the best ball golfers in the world have to take some off their putts so they'll stay in the cup. They need to either enlarge the cup, two feet across, or make a catching device.

They're going to let players leave the stick in now. That increases the catching ability by 30% and allows for too-fast putts.

I guess they also don't have the strength of character needed to resist the inevitable pull to make things easier and easier.

 

[lyleoross]

They're going to let players leave the stick in now. That increases the catching ability by 30% and allows for too-fast putts.

I guess they also don't have the strength of character needed to resist the inevitable pull to make things easier and easier.

Semi catching device? See, ya let ball golfers come here and before ya know it...

 

[swhite]

I said the same thing. It's laughable that the best ball golfers in the world have to take some off their putts so they'll stay in the cup. They need to either enlarge the cup, two feet across, or make a catching device.

Your analogy might be a good one. But, suppose some brand of ball golf cup had characteristics such that the players believed that their putts had a lower probability of staying in. I expect that the players would express dissatisfaction for this brand of cup.

 

[sjberry2017]

Wait, did you just tell a school administrator who has artificial turf fields, that he's wrong? Even you gave some caveats, necessary to decrease wear and tear.

I've seen few things that don't require regular maintenance except concrete. Even the blacktop surfaces down here do. I'm betting turf will too. I'd still use it, I'd just plan in maintenance. That's not gonna work so well in a high use public park though.

You are aware that Discgolfpark tees aren't the same as typical school field astroturf or ground up tire pellet based fields? They're some sort of sand-based artificial turf that drains water extremely well and doesn't require any extra maintenance beyond resanding about once a year

 

[Steve West]

Your analogy might be a good one. But, suppose some brand of ball golf cup had characteristics such that the players believed that their putts had a lower probability of staying in. I expect that the players would express dissatisfaction for this brand of cup.

It's not the cup that players are complaining about. It's that thing that sits above the cup which helps some putts go in which would otherwise have flown past. The complaint is that it doesn't help with ALL the putts that would have flown past. (Or at least doesn't help all the exact same kinds of putts as all the other devices.)

Controlling speed is too haaaaaard! Something should do it for me. Perfectly.

 

[lyleoross]

Your analogy might be a good one. But, suppose some brand of ball golf cup had characteristics such that the players believed that their putts had a lower probability of staying in. I expect that the players would express dissatisfaction for this brand of cup.

Absolutely. That's where your analogy falls down. If only one or two pros had problems keeping their balls in the cup, the rest of the pros would have a quiet laugh and think, if that dolt wants to give us the match by putting to hard, good for him. If every pro was blowing out with the same frequency as the... best player in the world, I'd be concerned. But that's not what happens.

 

[lyleoross]

You are aware that Discgolfpark tees aren't the same as typical school field astroturf or ground up tire pellet based fields? They're some sort of sand-based artificial turf that drains water extremely well and doesn't require any extra maintenance beyond resanding about once a year

Yeah, they use similar things on artificial soccer fields. The sand is artificial too. You just pointed out the weakness in the arguement, sanding once a year. Ya know how often concrete has to be "sanded?" An artificial turf ain't going to last as long or hold up as well. It's not rocket science. That doesn't mean you shouldn't, it just means you should ask the question. Do we have the funds, staff, and time to do maintenance? If yes, go for it. If no, then why? Etc.

 

[biscoe]

There is high quality athletic turf that does not require fill. It just has a shorter nap to begin with so doesn't need the fill to hold it upright. Walnut Creek (outside of Charlottesville) has some recycled from UVA athletic fields for tees. It has been in for maybe 7-8 years and shows no issues. We are putting in tees at Loriella that came from a field hockey field. If the stuff did wear out it would be a simple matter to remove it and replace it. schools and parks are replacing the stuff on athletic fields all the time as well so the odds of being able to get it very cheaply with a bit of research are pretty good.

I have also worked with the turf requiring infill. I have been a farmer pretty much my entire life and raking in infill is among the most brutally crappy tasks I have ever dealt with. The tees are great when they are done but with the additional labor involved I would opt for the shorter stuff every time. Blockhouse has infill turf for their tees but the fill wasn't put in quite deep enough so they are sometimes a bit slick when wet when the blades of turf lie down on one another. Any sort of portable turf tee would need to be the shorter stuff to make any sense as well.

I would be absolutely shocked if dgpark turf is not fairly standard stuff as turf goes. There simply isn't enough of it used for that purpose to dictate some non-standard manufacturing process.

Concrete makes my joints hurt, is unsightly, and wears out over time as well. I assume you can re-etch it somehow when that occurs.

 

[sjberry2017]

Yeah, they use similar things on artificial soccer fields. The sand is artificial too. You just pointed out the weakness in the arguement, sanding once a year. Ya know how often concrete has to be "sanded?" An artificial turf ain't going to last as long or hold up as well. It's not rocket science. That doesn't mean you shouldn't, it just means you should ask the question. Do we have the funds, staff, and time to do maintenance? If yes, go for it. If no, then why? Etc.

And I direct you back to my initial post on the matter:

Discgolfpark tees only need to be resanded once per year IIRC, and that's pretty much all there is to them. They might not be ideal for a nine hole project that's just going to be an afterthought for a county, but for any course that has even half a club attached to it, that should be handled well enough.

Of course, this being the real world it'll get done by the same four people every year more or less.

Yeah, they aren't the best choice for a simple nine hole project that no one really cares about, but even a moderately competent parks system (like Aiken County back home, who have DGP turf tees at both their courses) or a decent club can more than handle resanding the tees once per year, so to me it's a moot point really because it's not super maintenance intensive. And they hold up just fine to whatever the weather throws at them as well

 

[DanJon]

I'm late to the basket discussion, but I think it's hilarious that people insist that the consensus best player in the World, back to back World Champion, and probably the best putter ever, needs to change his putting style to accommodate for the baskets.

It's laughable.

Clearly all the basket makers should change their designs to accommodate him.

That makes more sense.

 

[the Duff]

Clearly all the basket makers should change their designs to accommodate him.

That makes more sense.

It sounds like that's exactly what the DGPT wants. Are they going to use him to test every basket before it's allowed now? I find the whole thing pretty ridiculous, but hey, I've adapted to Mach III's because that's what we play on in my area. Obviously the world champ shouldn't have to do that! /s

To be fair, from what I can see in the videos it looked like the chains were lighter weight compared to regular Chainstars for some reason. That could be my eyes playing tricks. My friend has a Chainstar in his back yard and I think they catch extremely well, but that's just an anecdote I guess.

 

[BrotherDave]

The turf tees don't have the crushed rubber in them that might be linked to cancer, do they?

 

[Alobar]

The turf tees don't have the crushed rubber in them that might be linked to cancer, do they?

No, I'm pretty sure the sand is in place of "crumb" rubber. Not to say the turf tees don't contain rubber or other harmful stuff, of course.

But crumb rubber is ground up tires, and a cursory look into tire compounds will tell you that the stuff is toxic. Not saying that proves a link between those fields and cancer, either. But tire dust/particles are not healthy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_turf–cancer_hypothesis

 

[biscoe]

The turf tees don't have the crushed rubber in them that might be linked to cancer, do they?

the ones at blockhouse have sand. one of the BH regulars had a side gig installing turf putting greens and that is what they used in his side work.

 

[sjberry2017]

I don't know about the Prodigy tees, but the Discgolfpark ones are all sand tees

 

[DiscFifty]

Yeah, I don't know about that, this case is unique. If you are donating free shirts to a club, tournament, or org, sure I can see that. But when a company sends free stuff to a top pro, it sends a statement of support.

I could see any of the top disc golf manufactures looking for non sponsored players and perhaps giving them "prizes" if they do well at a tournament. Said player gets stock, there is no official sponsorship...yet. If Josh continues to do well... it's inevitable. I would think as long as Paul (behind the scenes) is good with it, it's going to happen.

 

[onemilemore]

I'm still somewhat shocked that they haven't invested in a set of baskets for the tour to have as a backup in case there aren't up to par (get it?) baskets at the course already. Or better yet, have there be a basket sponsor for the tour and come up with a way to wrap the band or have custom number plates for each tournament (a la the Utah Open). Or even better still, have the title sponsor of each tournament provide their top tier basket as a temporary install for the tournament (wouldn't really work with Discraft for this event but as Mr. Heinhold said they'll have their championship basket out next year or use Mach X's). Or combine those. But for a tour trying to build the standards and make it more of a uniform set of tournaments for a season, I'm still pretty surprised by this.

The Pro Tour actually does have a set of Mach Xs, but opted to grant Ledgestone a waiver for the use of the Chainstars.

 

[Lazerface]

Did everyone defending the baskets actually watch all the coverage. It was not just Rick and some of the spit outs were extremely ridiculous. Those baskets sucked and I think that's the majority opinion among players and non-players.

 

[Dana]

Of course. I think the basket standard is a good start for DGPT and I would love to see a teepad standard next. Would also like to see NTs adopt the same standard, but this would end up taking a lot of temp courses (GCC, Masters Cup) out of the mix. No easy solution other than time and money.

I know for a fact you won't have to worry about GCC TeePads next year

 

[spinachd]

People keep talking about Mach X like that is the gold standard. I don't throw any Prodigy but I find the Prodigy baskets to be the very best. I'm always impressed when I play a course with those.