[Recommend] Next step up from a Leopard?

[TripleB]

What is the next step up from a Leopard in distance if I've got an average 50 year old man's arm speed and want a perfectly straight flight through tightly wooded courses?

I'm looking at a River but didn't know if there is a better/easier/longer option out there.

I've tried several distance drivers and I am not ready for those so as in tennis, I would prefer to beat opponents/the course with consistency and placement instead of power.

Distance drivers I've tried...152g Sidewinder (turn & burn), 158g Tern (too high of speed for me at this point), 168g Valkyrie (for some reason this throws a lot heavier than 168g), Avenger SS (my favorite of the four but doesn't give me any more glide than my Leopard).

Thanks for any helpful suggestions you can give!

TripleB

 

[Stable]

Pro Beast? It's a speed 10 like the Avenger SS but will be a little more stable initially and Pro plastic usually = lots of glide.

 

[lines]

I can throw my leopards farther, on average, than my other drivers in my bag. I let the glide do the work. Nose down with a little air under it, i can get 350'.

 

[slowplastic]

Sidewinder or Roadrunner in a reasonable weight like 165-170g. Likely Gstar so they will be mellow. They'll be much more stable than the light DX Sidewinder you have, but not overstable. Those two discs are the easiest distance out there I think for a 60-70% throw for me, and Gstar has good glide in general. I think those two discs are pretty interchangeable in flight depending on the specific disc, they do feel a little different in hand. You will likely enjoy Gstar since you like gummy Trilogy plastic.

 

[Bardu]

I agree with slowplastic, try an upper 160's Sidewinder, I'd go GStar too.

 

[SaROCaM]

How far are you throwing the Leopard now? I see guys in their 50s/60s that throw around 260' so if you aren't there consistently I would say stick with the Leopard. You can't buy distance, at least not any significant distance, unless you have sufficient form/power.

If you like the feel of the Valkyrie and want to keep trying with it, maybe a StarLite Valkyrie would work for a lighter weight disc. Or maybe a Star Sidewinder or Roadrunner around 160g. Stick with speed 9 and lower if your arm speed is lower.

 

[SaROCaM]

Found your "tale of the tape" post from earlier. Get those median distances with the mids and fairways up closer to those max distances. Then you'll see a bump up with the speed 9 discs. Basically revisit slowplastic's advice in that thread.

 

[ian.w]

Dude. Stop buying discs and learn the few staple molds that you have. Throw your putters and your roc/buzzz. You'll be happier a year from now.

 

[Yxebrew]

Or and S line FD, it's a smaller step up than the SW, but it has some stability and tons of glide. Very workable disc

 

[broomerang]

Dude. Stop buying discs and learn the few staple molds that you have. Throw your putters and your roc/buzzz. You'll be happier a year from now.

While sound advice, you cannot deny the pleasure gained from disc addiction. I'm about 2 discs shy of needing to start a support group myself. Speaking of which does anyone have ...

OP - I don't really feel like their is a faster leopard equivalent personally. By the time you have the arm speed to throw 9,10, or 11 speed you will likely be turning the discs in that flight rating over with full power throws. Discs like the Sidewinder, RR, TD, etc. Slower speed fairway drivers do not fly like faster discs. Trust me, you don't really want them to, they cover different shots.

If you want to get a faster disc that will be workable but still have enough stability to not turn into a roller on you I would say the Beast, CD2, Escape would all be good choices.

 

[broomerang]

Or and S line FD, it's a smaller step up than the SW, but it has some stability and tons of glide. Very workable disc

I think they are pretty similar to the leopard except about 100% better in every way. Personal opinion obviously. Still I think the FD will compete too much with his Leopard.

 

[TripleB]

How far are you throwing the Leopard now? I see guys in their 50s/60s that throw around 260' so if you aren't there consistently I would say stick with the Leopard. You can't buy distance, at least not any significant distance, unless you have sufficient form/power. Stick with speed 9 and lower if your arm speed is lower.

Found your "tale of the tape" post from earlier. Get those median distances with the mids and fairways up closer to those max distances. Then you'll see a bump up with the speed 9 discs. Basically revisit slowplastic's advice in that thread.

I was around 225-230' with the Leopard a few weeks ago but have since added about 20-30' by changing my grip a little (actually discovered it working on my putting and it translated over nicely to my throws).

Thanks for the help and advice!

Sidewinder or Roadrunner in a reasonable weight like 165-170g. Likely Gstar so they will be mellow. They'll be much more stable than the light DX Sidewinder you have, but not overstable. Those two discs are the easiest distance out there I think for a 60-70% throw for me, and Gstar has good glide in general. You will likely enjoy Gstar since you like gummy Trilogy plastic.

I appreciate that info! I do love the Lucid plastic...probably one of the reasons I was looking at the River so I could get it in the Gold Line (which I believe is similar to the Lucid).

TripleB

 

[broomerang]

I was around 225-230' with the Leopard a few weeks ago but have since added about 20-30' by changing my grip a little (actually discovered it working on my putting and it translated over nicely to my throws).

Thanks for the help and advice!

At this distance with a Leopard I would not advise moving up to any faster discs. You will not get proper flight out of them and will not see any real increase in how far you can throw one versus the other.

Stick in the 6-7 speed range until you can throw those discs 300 feet. At that time you might get another 30 feet out of a speed 8-9 disc but you will plateau at that distance until you clean up your form.

This is a completely natural progression for new and old players alike. A lot of really good players only throw 350 feet max in local leagues. Most courses are not designed with max distance pro players in mind and more strokes(throws, whatever people are calling them now) are saved with accurate tee shots, scrambling, and putting.

I bag a bunch of FDs (similar to a leopard). Sure, I can throw them nearly 375 feet with room.
But on the wooded low line you refer to I throw discs at the following distances:

midrange (speed 5) - 300
FD (speed 7) - 325
Thunderbird (speed 9) - 350
PD (speed 10) - 375
Wraith (speed 11) - 400

The point being that the line you are throwing the disc on will greatly influence how far you can expect to throw it.

Just a few years ago before I began cleaning up my form I could only have thrown the FD probably 300 feet max and the Wraith about 350 feet max. Discs with more potential for length will not improve your length without very clean form. Timing is everything (in life and in DG).

 

[TripleB]

Or maybe a Star Sidewinder or Roadrunner around 160g. Stick with speed 9 and lower if your arm speed is lower.

I agree with slowplastic, try an upper 160's Sidewinder, I'd go GStar too.

Sidewinder or Roadrunner in a reasonable weight like 165-170g. Likely Gstar so they will be mellow. You will likely enjoy Gstar since you like gummy Trilogy plastic.

As far as the Star vs GStar...the Tern I tried was in Star plastic and I didn't care for it much. I have not tried a GStar, but in my short time with discs the Lucid has felt the best to me. One of the reasons I was looking for a Trilogy disc for a longer Leopard. The Lucid seems to offers the tack I love but also a stiffer feel...which to me seems like a hard combination to find. So from what I'm hearing the GStar is as close to Lucid as I can get with an Innova disc?

What's strange is that Trilogy doesn't really have any discs that are that US and get a great distance...maybe a Witness or Fury is the closest they have.

I would say right now the Roadrunner is a bit more intriguing to me than the Sidewinder...mainly because of me seeing my 152g Sidewinder turn and burn.

To get max distance out of a Roadrunner (say G-Star) with a 70-75% throw, what weight should I be looking at to get a perfectly straight throw with no chance of turn and burn?

Looks like where I'll probably order from I have the following weight choices in GStar: 163g, 164g, 166g, 170g.

Again, I appreciate your help!

TripleB

 

[ian.w]

At this distance with a Leopard I would not advise moving up to any faster discs. You will not get proper flight out of them and will not see any real increase in how far you can throw one versus the other.

Stick in the 6-7 speed range until you can throw those discs 300 feet. At that time you might get another 30 feet out of a speed 8-9 disc but you will plateau at that distance until you clean up your form.

Please tripleB, take this advice. I know you want to buy some lucid plastic, but it's not going to help you throw further, or improve any faster.

 

[Streets]

Post less, play more.

 

[SD86]

Before you buy something in GStar, find a GStar disc in a store and see how it feels to you. I don't like GStar; other people do. If you do like GStar, the TL3 might give you some more distance over the Leopard.

For Trilogy: the Witness, Thief, or Falchion are higher speed discs. The Falchion is a lot like the (normal weight) Sidewinder; I bag the Falchion.

But like the others said, there's no rush; consider future purchases carefully and how they integrate into your evolving game.

 

[slowplastic]

I agree with others to feel Gstar, it is gummy and less stiff than Star. It is does not feel like Lucid because of the flexibility, but if you like Lucid/Fuzion more than stiff Star plastic I think you will like Gstar. The main thing though, is that Gstar flies great for slower arm speeds.

I would say right now the Roadrunner is a bit more intriguing to me than the Sidewinder...mainly because of me seeing my 152g Sidewinder turn and burn.
TripleB

Roadrunner is typically less stable than Sidewinder. I would not use your experience with a lightweight DX Sidewinder to mean anything. I have thrown DX Destroyers in 175g that will turn into a roller for me from a hyzer release, and in other plastics I can throw them full power backhand or forehand into 20+ MPH wind and they won't care. A light DX disc has nearly nothing in common with other plastics.

There are some Trilogy discs that are understable and bomb...just a lot of their "fairways" are in that speed 9-10 range. Maybe an Underworld would be something to look at. I get that these discs can seem "cooler" than the old Innova classics, but whenever I throw a Sidewinder or Roadrunner they have every bit as much glide and easy distance as anything else out there; they just got assigned flight numbers before people started saying glide = 6 and 7. Something like the Escape or Saint takes more power than you have to get them to glide and fly like you'll want. It's true those discs bomb, but you need to be throwing 325'+ fairways consistently for them to feel like easy distance IMO, lower than that and they will be more of a control disc with significant fade I bet.

 

[kjr63]

There is a difference between leo and leo3.

 

[Casey 1988]

Triple B, What Plastic Is the Valkyrie? I have both a Champion glow and a Star version in same wight and the Champion versions require less power to throw. Get a Champion version even glow will be less stable then the Star version.