PDGATOUR - Would you support this?

[DiscFifty]

What if the PDGA took control of all the elite events, hired the best disc golf media crews, gave them long term contracts, etc, etc. All of the elite events had live coverage, guaranteed next day post coverage, etc, etc. No more diversity and potentially dividing the fan base by having to choose your favorite "media content provider". Perhaps the clear path has been here all along. They gobbled up UDisc, maybe it's time for the PDGA to step up and proclaim it's namesake as the unified central source for all things disc golf media?

Would the ams (who are probably the majority of the disc golf media viewing base) be upset if they knew a big portion of their membership was funding this? I surely wouldn't. Again..assuming we get guaranteed live coverage and next day footage of all the elite events.

If I was a betting man, I would bet the PDGA has been contemplating this. Let everyone else grow the sport, and then at some point announce they will be moving toward controlling all of the elite events. Right now PDGATOUR.com re-directs to the PDGA events page btw.

I would fully support it because I'm honestly a little fatigued from having to subscribe to multiple channels, pages, social accounts, to get my disc golf fix. I would prefer to just go to one source to get my pro disc golf coverage.

Would you support this? Would love to read more than just a yes | no response.

 

[dehaas]

I could be wrong, but all of the stuff with DGWT/DGPT was pursued due to a lack of pdga involvement. There were the NT events, but nothing that stood on its own as a viable season long tour.

And of course a privately funded tour means the potential for money to be made.

Pdga focus was on growing membership at the time. I do agree though, it would be much more streamlined to have it all in house. But that goes back to ye olde debate of who the pdga caters to, the ams or the pros?

 

[biscoe]

If the PDGA opts for major spending on a "top down" method of growing the game I will keep my membership dollars. (I have been a member for 20+ years, run roughly 75 PDGA events including several A tiers, served as Regional and State Coordinator for over a decade, etc, etc)

From what I can tell of the current BOD your scenario is very unlikely.

 

[JC17393]

What Biscoe said. The PDGA does not need to be pouring any more membership money (on a percentage basis) into the pro tour than they already are. And they won't be anytime soon.

You think that the amateur members of the org would be into that, and I think history suggests that is not the case. The idea of the PDGA investing more of its resources into a bigger pro tour has been floating around for 20+ years. There's a reason they haven't done more in that time...there really isn't the support for it among the majority of the membership.

I bring this up every time this idea gets floated (and others have too), but the PGA Tour was not created by the PGA. It was created by a player-driven initiative that was separate from the PGA itself. Essentially the pro players banded together union-style and hired people to run a tour for them. Eventually they partnered with the PGA but to this day, the PGA Tour is a separate entity from the PGA.

The DGPT (and the DGWT) origin story is fairly similar to the PGA Tour's. The biggest difference is that the disc golf tour(s) are driven largely by one person's vision rather than a collective desire but it's still a team of folks coming together (DGPT staff, TDs, PDGA staff, media crews) to create a functional tour capable of supporting full time players.

I think no matter who is doing the organizing and creating, we have to recognize that it is a HUGE undertaking that absolutely will not come together perfectly or instantly. No matter who's in charge, there will be growing pains and there will be glitches and screw-ups along the way. To expect perfect immediately is a fool's errand.

 

[biscoe]

The DGPT (and the DGWT) origin story is fairly similar to the PGA Tour's. The biggest difference is that the disc golf tour(s) are driven largely by one person's vision rather than a collective desire but it's still a team of folks coming together (DGPT staff, TDs, PDGA staff, media crews) to create a functional tour capable of supporting full time players.

The fundamental difference between the two was the PGA players concern was how to cut up a pie and the DGPT is attempting to bake one more or less from scratch.

 

[ru4por]

Could be the worst disc golf idea I have heard. As a 18+ year PDGA member, I have ZERO interest in supporting pro play, more than I already do. I am one of the people that think you are spending a lot of time bemoaning and trying to fix something that is not broken. The pro tour has never been in better shape, no more money has ever been played for, no more opportunity, on and off the course, has ever been more available for players and never have we, as fans, had all the options for watching disc golf. The state of the pro game need no attention or help. Steve Dodge has likely done more toward making this happen than anyone in the last few years....and will likely be the catalyst for continued growth. I do not want my PDGA money used to support any pro tour.

 

[scarpfish]

I don't know why some folks on this board are hell bent on pushing their athlete worship fantasies and think somehow if they word it just right, those of us who have been at this awhile and know the reality of things are going to go along with it. Good grief.

 

[mmblink86]

all this whining about membership fees going to waste, y'all are missing the bigger point.

if positioned effectively, a product like this could be a long-term cash cow for the PDGA, and the sport as a whole.

wake up, people. it's a simple yes.

 

[DavidSauls]

all this whining about membership fees going to waste, y'all are missing the bigger point.

if positioned effectively, a product like this could be a long-term cash cow for the PDGA, and the sport as a whole.

wake up, people. it's a simple yes.

If there was really money in it, someone would already be making it. Possibly Steve Dodge. He's certainly trying.

The PDGA had a lock on big events until, what, 3, 4 years ago? It was such a big success that.....others jumped into the void with competing/complimentary tours.

*

I want the PDGA to use its resources---our money---to grow the sport in many ways, including the pro tour itself. Media? I'll let those who care about it, pay for it.

 

[DavidSauls]

I would fully support it because I'm honestly a little fatigued from having to subscribe to multiple channels, pages, social accounts, to get my disc golf fix. I would prefer to just go to one source to get my pro disc golf coverage.

Would you support this? Would love to read more than just a yes | no response.

Specifically, no, because I have zero interest in disc golf video, live or next-day.

 

[Hyzflip10]

Is this something the touring players would want? That would seem to be the main concern.

 

[DanJon]

all this whining about membership fees going to waste, y'all are missing the bigger point.

if positioned effectively, a product like this could be a long-term cash cow for the PDGA, and the sport as a whole.

wake up, people. it's a simple yes.

How long have you been playing?

 

[ru4por]

all this whining about membership fees going to waste, y'all are missing the bigger point.

if positioned effectively, a product like this could be a long-term cash cow for the PDGA, and the sport as a whole.

wake up, people. it's a simple yes.

Perhaps I am missing the point. Explain how the PDGA going into competition with DGPT, DGWT and the hundreds of clubs around the country putting on A-Tier events is a cash cow. And please explain how this is any better for the sport, as a whole, than what we have now.

 

[Moose33]

We're too early for this to work. The overall dollar amount in the sport is too low to create the monopoly type environment.

Our sport though it's been around a while is still a fledgling and the majority of the revenue isn't coming top down. It's made from the bottom up.

My fear is that if you push everything into one channel at this point, all of the incentives to do it the best quality will disappear. Why would the pdga try to spend all of that money being the best if they are they only one? If there truely is money in this someone will eventually rise above the rest and kill the majority of the competition. Until then, we just have to subscribe to multiple YouTube channels.

 

[SD86]

IMHO the PDGA is to Disc Golf what the U.S. Chess Federation is to chess. The USCF runs the ratings system and is the clearinghouse for tournaments, makes the rules for U.S. tournaments, issues tournament director certifications, runs the U.S. Championship, but otherwise lets tournament organizers (equivalent of Disc Golf Tournament Directors) run their tournaments, and does not really bother with nor worry about pro tours. The USGA is the ball golf equivalent of this.

So no, I don't think the best place for a 'PDGATour' is the PDGA itself. Not that it can't cooperate with someone (as it already does, to an extent) to help put some kind of pro tour in place, but I don't think that's really the mission of the PDGA.

My thoughts are that the Pro DG Players need to get off their fourth points of contact (a little Army Airborne lingo, there) and get more involved in some kind of pro tour, be it the DGPT or 'PDGATour' or whatever, just as pro ball golfers did with the PGA, and was tried in chess with the Professional Chess Association (PCA).

As to media... well, I'll just say that all that seems to be working itself out right now... :|

 

[DavidSauls]

Perhaps I am missing the point. Explain how the PDGA going into competition with DGPT, DGWT and the hundreds of clubs around the country putting on A-Tier events is a cash cow. And please explain how this is any better for the sport, as a whole, than what we have now.

I think the "cash cow" is media---the way money flows into golf, football, etc. The idea is that if someone just does it right, viewers will flood in and money will follow.

The "mythical cash cow", that is.

 

[Plastic Thunder]

I am sure there are a number of people willing to buy content of any sort. I can't see that I would ever spend money on disc golf coverage. I will buy discs, the occasional players disc but other than that I can't see paying for coverage, heck, I dropped ESPN 3 years ago.

I see disc golf coverage as a hobby and not a scaleable business at this point, it could change but not anytime soon. Live coverage captured a few thousand people this past week on YouTube, edited coverage on the same venue on the captures 10-40 times that many views and had much better product IMO. The money of which there is not a bunch is in the edited product at this point. Eyeballs translate in to dollars and there is not a huge number of eyeballs across the country watching disc golf coverage.

Some thing to think about is last estimate I saw in a business journal was 530K(PARKED 2017 estimate)in the US for organized players. These would be players that take it fairly seriously. 530K is not a huge audience unless they all watch coverage and they don't. For those of you who think the 530K US organized player population is a low number, let's do some quick math. 50 states, at 500k that's 10,000 players per state. You really think Maine, Montana, North Dakota, Alaska, Rhode Island, or Hawaii have 10,000 organized players? Not picking on those locations, I just used them to illustrate my point concerning the math, 530K is a solid guess. Some of you will point out larger numbers exist if you include the rest of the world, and you would be correct, here's the issue I see current with their eyeballs. They don't watch US disc golf productions in any real numbers. By the way in 2012 the PDGA had an estimate of 500K, not as big a jump in organized players as many might think. Keep in mind everyone does not stay in the sport for ever, there are losses every year. I added the link below in case someone wants to see my source.

My point is this, this sport is still a hobby unless you make disc. Broadcasting revenue and coverage is a hobby. It's fun hobby for those who are chasing a dream. I like watching, just not spending money on it.


https://parkeddiscgolf.org/2018/12/01/a-demographic-portrait-of-disc-golf-land/
THE QUICK-AND-DIRTY

In 2017, the U.S. disc golfer population stood at roughly 530,000.
The number of women (15 percent) and racial minorities (9 percent) exceeded previous estimates, but these groups were clearly underrepresented.
The mean age of disc golfers was 33.
The percentage of disc golfers with some college education (36 percent) was surprisingly low.
Disc golf was more popular in the Midwest than in the Northeast, South and West.

LAST WORDS

Our population estimate should be treated as preliminary evidence that requires confirmation from future studies. Given the novelty of our methodology and the "known unknowns" involving lone wolves and small groups, it is possible that many more than 530,254 Americans play disc golf.

At the same time, the popular claim that millions of Americans play disc golf regularly should be scrutinized in view of the evidence provided here and common sense.

Consider, for instance, what the disc golf industry should look like if two or three million Americans played disc golf. In 2016, per the State of Disc Golf Survey, 33 percent of disc golfers spent between $200 and $499 per year; an additional 33 percent spent between $500 and $2,000. In short, the average disc golfer spends around $400 to $500 per year.

If two or three million Americans played, disc golf would be a billion-dollar industry based only on the expenditures of individual consumers.

Given the sport's lack of attention from television networks, outside investors and corporate sponsors, the U.S. disc golfer population is likely closer to 500,000 than two million.

While the 2017 estimate of 530,254 may seem low to many observers, it is not extremely low compared to some institutional estimates. For instance, the PDGA estimated that there were 500,000 "regular players" in the world in 2012. While there was tremendous growth over the next five years, a 2017 estimate of 530,254 disc golfers in the U.S. alone is not beyond reason.

To sum up the other findings of this study, the demographic data suggest that there are social constraints to playing disc golf involving the sex, race and geography of disc golfers, but that old age and low socio-economic status do not limit participation and may encourage it.

So far, I've only reviewed the demographics of the sample. In the next post, I'll talk about the "disc golf activity index" and consider how demographic categories predict players' level of involvement in the sport.

~~~

 

[jvphobic]

Nope. Not gonna happen. None of the companies would sell to them.

A more likely scenario would be the PDGA saying, "Hey, you want to cover our NT/M events? Here are the ads you are required to play and you put it on our channels. Now tell me how much it is worth to you." And if the media doesn't like it, the media doesn't get to come. I have said for years that it is a crying shame that the PDGA doesn't force everyone of us to put their top events on THEIR YouTube page as well as the media company's.

Based on simply a gut feeling right now every MPO round of an NT/M is worth about $3-500 and the final round probably closer to $750 for post production coverage. But that is really just a gut feeling.

 

[VictorB]

There used to be a SuperTour series (maybe just a predecessor to the National Tour?)

The PDGA needs to expand the National Tour to be bigger. 10 events to go along with 4 majors. No idea how any of that would happen. I think, at this point, whether PDGA does something like this won't matter and media coverage will be somewhere anyway.

 

[Cgkdisc]

There used to be a SuperTour series (maybe just a predecessor to the National Tour?)

The PDGA needs to expand the National Tour to be bigger. 10 events to go along with 4 majors. No idea how any of that would happen. I think, at this point, whether PDGA does something like this won't matter and media coverage will be somewhere anyway.

SuperTour event was simply the name for A-tier level events in the 90s. It wasn't an organized tour.