United States disc golf championships

[brutalbrutus]

The pricing is reasonable as well, 8 live rounds over 4 days for $25. Hopefully they are able to get Climo back in the booth to commentate (worth the price!).

It's not reasonable when i will get to watch 3 whole events on much better courses(Idlewild Iron Hill and Maple Hill) for $10.

 

[brutalbrutus]

Marketing 101 has shown that higher priced products are seen to be worth it, or buyers convince themselves it's worth it such as several Apple products, for example (not saying they are or aren't worth it, just their consumers' point of view). So, whether coverage is not free and pay-per-view, and at what price, is purely a call made by those presenting the event. To think that Innova wasn't concerned about any impact related to growing the sport is foolish, especially when the EDGE and Throw Pink events are hosted and promoted, too.

I give money to DGN all throughout the year willingly... BUT I'm not paying extra to watch that wretched course just because Innova calls it the national championship.

 

[brutalbrutus]

More Mozzi Sticks at USDGC... only this time they're twice as tall and right in front of a new hole's tee...

 

[nothinbuttree]

More Mozzi Sticks at USDGC... only this time they're twice as tall and right in front of a new hole's tee...

If they look real hard they can find my $25 check(or whatever the overpriced fee is) buried underneath one of them...Well, its not a real check. Why should they get real money for a fake course?

 

[elmexdela]

More Mozzi Sticks at USDGC... only this time they're twice as tall and right in front of a new hole's tee...

are they tryin to make us be grateful that they didnt use moar rope

 

[Ryan P.]

I don't like the design choice, but not because its artificial. There's a lot of artificiality on all the Elite courses. USDGC likes taking it to the extreme, and some people don't care for that. I've come to see that artificiality pushes the sport forward in many good ways.

I don't like it because the hole is basically now a huge hyzer for RH players, which there is plenty of every tourney on every course. It used to be somewhat interesting. A 362 foot hyzer? It would have been much better if they put the tee back in the woods and put those silly sticks 10' outside the woods. That would prevent the hyzer and still allow the same hole shape (albeit they'd probably have to flip it so it snakes around to the left instead of the right).

It's funny how the Duvall's pick a hole to tweak, and then keep tweaking it for a few years. It's been hole 9 for the past few. Hole 13 was before that, hole 7 (the bamboo hole) before that, etc. They have minor tweaks to multiple holes most years, but those have all undergone multiple large revisions in a short time.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

A gimmick is OK, but I prefer them more limited basis.

If creating artificial trees and OB is the primary means of creating challenge... I'm not sure Winthrop is all that good a course for an event like this if it needs to be so contrived.

Not that my opinion will change anything. I suspect the USDGC will remain at Winthrop for years to come. :|

 

[rjnoodlearm]

It all depends.

Is pay per view at US dgc a good idea or not?

Good idea to what? To raise revenue now? To test the market? To grow the sport?

It all depends on what the goal is.

Virtually all the major sporting events (in the U.S. , I don't know about elsewhere) originally were "free". They were free in the sense that the fan got them from either a radio or TV broadcast which was free. Of course those ads for Coke or Chevrolet marginally raised the price of those products but so minimally that no one much noticed.

Would the Super Bowl have grown into the humongous mega-event it is today if the NFL had made it pay per view in 1966? Many NFL games are still "free" today if you use a digital antenna.

I think disc golf is in a shakedown cruise mode where different models are being tested to see what works and why. I enjoy the Jomez and GK post production option, but it is beginning to feel a bit limited especially the first and second rounds where you often have a player who is unknown and/or crashes and burns. Having to watch Biff Stumblebum for 18 holes rather than being able to switch to different holes to see the best or most interesting or most impactful play is, as I said, a bit limiting.

 

[txmxer]

I don't know the economics, but I suspect most making a living off disc golf are on a very tight budget. Not that nobody is greedy—that's human nature, but where does the money to support various aspects come from and what is a reasonable investment from a business standpoint.

DGPT and DGN may be ambitious, but they aren't sleeping in stacks of 100s.

Give your feedback. Don't pay for it if you think it is unreasonable. This is an area where market forces actually function correctly.

 

[jdm0514]

Disc golf is a niche sport. Putting a paywall on one of the sport's premier event only hurts you.

 

[txmxer]

Disc golf is a niche sport. Putting a paywall on one of the sport's premier event only hurts you.

But does it?

 

[ru4por]

USDGC has been the most unwatchable disc golf tournament, since it's inception. The course is awful and the ropes/stakes make it very difficult to watch, IMO. This have become a completely irrelevant event, paywall simply ensure this.

 

[txmxer]

USDGC has been the most unwatchable disc golf tournament, since it's inception. The course is awful and the ropes/stakes make it very difficult to watch, IMO. This have become a completely irrelevant event, paywall simply ensure this.

definitely not my favorite course. But, it might surprise this year. I've come to realize that the competition is a big factor in the entertainment value. I am expecting a very competitive event. If it proves to be mediocre even with tremendous competition, then it is what it is.

 

[Ryan P.]

USDGC has been the most unwatchable disc golf tournament, since it's inception. The course is awful and the ropes/stakes make it very difficult to watch, IMO. This have become a completely irrelevant event, paywall simply ensure this.

definitely not my favorite course. But, it might surprise this year. I've come to realize that the competition is a big factor in the entertainment value. I am expecting a very competitive event. If it proves to be mediocre even with tremendous competition, then it is what it is.

Seems like you guys are using two very different definitions of "watchable".

ru4por, you're saying the course isn't watchable because you don't like how it's designed (ropes/stakes).

txmxer, you're saying it's watchable because it's designed in such a way as to be competitive.

I know others say it is watchable because they can actual see the shots flying (unlike on many wooded courses).

Still others say it is unwatchable because they can't get a feel for where the disc is flying because there are so few trees on some holes.

To each his own?

 

[ru4por]

Seems like you guys are using two very different definitions of "watchable".

ru4por, you're saying the course isn't watchable because you don't like how it's designed (ropes/stakes).

txmxer, you're saying it's watchable because it's designed in such a way as to be competitive.

I know others say it is watchable because they can actual see the shots flying (unlike on many wooded courses).

Still others say it is unwatchable because they can't get a feel for where the disc is flying because there are so few trees on some holes.

To each his own?

I do kind of agree with txmxr, compelling competition can make any event more desirable. My complaint with USDCG is simply the difficulty figuring out OB. There is usually a field of rope/stakes that are difficult to distinguish OB from IB. Not to mention I don't find field golf that compelling.

I think our national championship should be on a premier disc golf course/complex. IMO, Winthrop is not that.

 

[nothinbuttree]

To each their own for sure. My $.02 (all its worth)--a few of the holes are interesting. This course just goes way overboard, keeping as permanent holes things that are intended to be test holes. Its like a gigantic putt putt course. Two triple mandos on one course?

But the preponderance of ropes is the biggest thing. There's just so much of it. They could move baskets or change pars to get rid of some of those ropes and have just as competitive event. Maybe they want to completely take away any advantage big throwers have, who knows. The course is also overly punitive (17 comes to mind, as does the island green that Climo struggled on back in 2015 I think--hole 8 or 9 maybe?). I hate seeing good players take snowmen or worse because one particular shot is not dialed in right at that moment and they have to keep trying, 2 strokes at a time. Climo was actually right there with McBeth and Wysocki that year, well into his 40s. Possibly the best foursome ever.

 

[Flick Maniac]

I for one love the USDGC. It was one of the first events I watched live (yeah back in the DiscGolfPlanet days), and where there were even Finns in the competition. I know the course inside and out, and since its a big deal prestige-wise, its always an exciting watch. Who will survive #17 and get his name in history this time? Unless the price ever becomes overtly punitive, I will likely always watch it live.

edit: The OB is there so that you need to have your disc land at the correct spot at the correct angle and correct speed. Otherwise, skip OB. I would fare terribly on the course. Yet I long to play it more than any other.

 

[Ryan P.]

I don't love the course, but I think there are a lot of really important/critical parts of this course from a course design perspective.

• Ropes. I've never heard someone say they like the ropes the ropes, but ropes have made their way onto many other courses. USDGC popularized the use of ropes. Their main benefit is a simple way of making a course harder (which can be important when pros come to visit). Ropes are also very fair; generally much fairer than trees. I'm sure you've had a bad shot hit a tree and kick back out into the fairway; shots that go into OB rope very rarely get an odd bounce back into the fairway (exception: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHzZ53Vx8nM). I think this is made even better by the combined use of hazard and OB areas. Many would respond by saying that water is a much more aesthetically pleasing way of doing this. That's true, but it doesn't offer ...
  
• Flexibility. The USDGC (because of the ropes and other man-made obstacles) has stayed relevant and competitive for 20+ years, despite pros being able to throw 100ish feet further than they did 20 years ago. They also can improve the course from year to year. Trying to improve the course will inevitably lead to bad ideas (the dock on hole 5 made the hole worse according to most), but also leads to good ideas. IMO, one of the best ideas they've had is ...
  
• Strategy. There are multiple schools of hole design, one of which is a strategic hole. Strategic holes offer different ways to play the hole according to one's skill level (or, less politely stated, according to the size of a player's arms and heuvos). Hole 17 has three distinct landing zones off the tee, despite it being a par 3. You can try and park it (which almost everyone does), go for the safe drive off to the right (which a few do), or accept your fate and throw an 80' upshot (which I've seen no pros do but many smart ams do). Not all the holes have this, but most do. There are other courses that have done it much better, but the USDGC was able to jump-start this because of its ...
  
• Visibility. I mean this in two senses: in-person and on video/worldwide knowledge. For "in-person", while you're on the course its easy to see holes and shots. You know where the disc should go and where it shouldn't. Then, when the shot is thrown, you know where it went. Therefore, not only does it have interesting design features, but you can also see them, even on video. The USDGC is one of the most well-known events in the world (2nd being worlds in my estimation). So everyone sees and discusses these course changes from year to year. We've been able to see a course that's under development for 20+ years. That's a great way to help others learn to design.

 

[Ryan P.]

I'll also add in that many European courses have modeled themselves after Winthrop Gold. Well, more precisely stated, around 8 of the 15ish that I've seen on video have modeled themselves in a similar way, with ropes playing a huge factor and course changes occurring from year to year.

 

[brutalbrutus]

I don't like it because the hole is basically now a huge hyzer for RH players, which there is plenty of every tourney on every course. It used to be somewhat interesting. A 362 foot hyzer? It would have been much better if they put the tee back in the woods and put those silly sticks 10' outside the woods. That would prevent the hyzer and still allow the same hole shape (albeit they'd probably have to flip it so it snakes around to the left instead of the right).

It's funny how the Duvall's pick a hole to tweak, and then keep tweaking it for a few years. It's been hole 9 for the past few. Hole 13 was before that, hole 7 (the bamboo hole) before that, etc. They have minor tweaks to multiple holes most years, but those have all undergone multiple large revisions in a short time.

Should have made it a double mando with the outermost "sticks".