Knowing D

[Billipo]

Curious if the legalization of Rangefinder use had made Course Designers reevaluate their existing designs or affected new course designs.

 

[DavidSauls]

I'm not sure why it would matter, from a course design perspective. What hole design works when players estimate distance, but wouldn't work as well if they knew the distance?

 

[Billipo]

I learned to play disc golf on wooded courses. When I first played on open courses I was intimidated by long holes with no obstacles to provide perspective or gauge distance. A depth perception thing.

In some of my designs, I have included multi throw grip and rip open holes as a type of hole that players need to master. Plus in some cases a designer needs to make best use of an open field. I have on occasion added multiple pin locations of varying length to "mess with" player perspective. One of the few times I use moveable pins. Some times a holes or two only have space and wind as the challenge.

What brought on the post is second guessing guiding another course designer to include a long open hole under same philosophy. I'm not sure if now trees should be planted on all open holes. or is depth perception still a disc golf skill set?

 

[DavidSauls]

I understand it making a difference to the player. We have a private course with some par-4s & -5s, on which it can be very helpful to know the distance on 2nd shots. We carry a caddy book in our heads -- from this tree it's so many feet; this water carry is so far, etc.

That knowledge helps play the holes, but it doesn't change the design. There's a water carry on a second throw, and first-time players often think it's further than it actually is. But if we, say, put that distance on the sign so everyone knew, we wouldn't change the design.

 

[davetherocketguy]

I think it's pretty funny people put so much faith in their arm to throw as accurately as those rangefinders measure.

I've considered doing some testing with a rangefinder out in the field and see if there is something that could be placed on baskets to make the measuring easier. While having never used one it seems that the big issue with those is finding a suitable reflective surface to get a reading off of. I wonder if maybe using retroreflective tape on the center pole or elsewhere on the basket would help in that process.

 

[ray1970]

I guess I'm blessed because I've always had a natural ability to look at something and judge the distance pretty accurately.

I don't need to know the distance to the pin if I can see it. The only time I like to know the distance is when the shot is blind. If I can't see my target then I kind of like to have an idea of how far I need to try and throw.

I do play with a guy who apparently isn't very good at judging distance and his short game wasn't the best. He often came up short or long on his approaches. He has been using one of the range finders lately and it has really improved his game.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

One benefit of being a noodle arm is knowing you really don't have to throttle down as often as players that throw 350-400 ft.

How far is it? Full send.

 

[biscoe]

I think it's pretty funny people put so much faith in their arm to throw as accurately as those rangefinders measure.

I've considered doing some testing with a rangefinder out in the field and see if there is something that could be placed on baskets to make the measuring easier. While having never used one it seems that the big issue with those is finding a suitable reflective surface to get a reading off of. I wonder if maybe using retroreflective tape on the center pole or elsewhere on the basket would help in that process.

I have never had an issue with rangefinder picking up a basket other than in rainy/foggy conditions and I use them all the time in course work. If deer are suitably reflective then baskets certainly are.

My preference would be for them to be illegal for play as I believe judging distance to be an improvable skill but that cat is out of the bag already. I believe i have used one in an event exactly once.

 

[biscoe]

One benefit of being a noodle arm is knowing you really don't have to throttle down as often as players that throw 350-400 ft.

How far is it? Full send.

Yep, exactly.

 

[DavidSauls]

I have never had an issue with rangefinder picking up a basket other than in rainy/foggy conditions and I use them all the time in course work. If deer are suitably reflective then baskets certainly are.

My preference would be for them to be illegal for play as I believe judging distance to be an improvable skill but that cat is out of the bag already. I believe i have used one in an event exactly once.

For those of us who play on hills, an exact distance is still only a starting point in the decision and execution.

 

[ray1970]

For those of us who play on hills, an exact distance is still only a starting point in the decision and execution.

True. There are some 260' holes where I'm pumping a driver as hard as I can and some 330' holes that I'm throwing a putter off the tee. Elevation definitely makes distance kind of irrelevant.

 

[Billipo]

I think confidence also plays a factor in player execution.

Just had two decent shots no sure how far away I am from the pin cause there was some wind. probably about 200 ft, I think, not sure but need to park it cause I gotta get this putt. I hope I get close.

or who cares what my first two shots were. I pulled out the rangefinder ...220 ft. I got this. wide open shot.

 

[DavidSauls]

How would a course designer change anything, to take away that benefit?

Maybe fewer very long, wide-open, landmark-free holes? Well, that would be a good idea, regardless.

 

[Billipo]

Likely wide open holes will no longer provide any purpose. I used to think this was a type of hole with value.

If rangefinders become prevalent then likely wide open holes no longer address this challenge, depth perception, and just become boring.

This time of year our club works on our project list. Usually we plant some trees. Maybe it's time to landscape the long open holes and scratch this type of hole from future designs.

 

[DavidSauls]

Long, level, wide-open holes are pretty rare about here. I don't know that they have much value to begin with, but they probably have some -- to reward big distance, perhaps more wind-prone too.

 

[mostlynorwegian]

Likely wide open holes will no longer provide any purpose. I used to think this was a type of hole with value.

If rangefinders become prevalent then likely wide open holes no longer address this challenge, depth perception, and just become boring.

This time of year our club works on our project list. Usually we plant some trees. Maybe it's time to landscape the long open holes and scratch this type of hole from future designs.

Rangefinders will not factor in wind, and what it's ideas are. The crew I was working with (city limits disc golf) this fall for Casual rounds at Humboldt Park (chicago) nearly all had them, but we would include one or two holes that utilized open space because the park generally always has a swirling wind of some kind going on. We could talk about thermal dynamics a bit in regards to this as well. But, The discussion was they are better for newer players, and for those who could bomb it. Wide open holes will always serve a purpose because the wind will have its own ideas, and that open temptation of seeing the basket with nothing to read off of, nor in the way is the challenge to figure out.

 

[BillFleming]

Curious if the legalization of Rangefinder use had made Course Designers reevaluate their existing designs or affected new course designs.

Rangefinders were never illegal....as far as I know. They just weren't common, probably because they only measured in yards for a long time and who wants to do the math? Now that rangefinders measure in feet, we are seeing them more.

I see the main purpose of rangefinders being the confirmation of hole length....some course's signage is noticeably off...especially if they have more than one basket placement - is the basket at A, B, or C???? Sometimes it's hard to tell. Also, there isn't an easy way to tell how far from the basket you are once you are off the tee pad. Compare ball golf, there are 200, 150, 100 markers....if the hole is long enough it might have a 250 marker. Most courses also have yardage marks on the sprinkler heads; and there are lots of GPS devices that tell you how far you are from the center of the green....most even tell you the distance to the front/center/back of the green and hazards (sand traps/water). Most people can't "eyeball" distances....I know I can't as my depth perception is pretty poor.

 

[DavidSauls]

I believe rangefinders used to be illegal.

I get the impression that the PDGA yielded once so many people were carrying smartphones, and had access to apps that might help judge distance.

I could be wrong on both accounts.

 

[Billipo]

True wind comes into play for two specific holes that I am thinking about.

Trees just take so long to grow in! Maybe movable Inflatables would serve as interesting obstacles.

 

[biscoe]

I believe rangefinders used to be illegal.

I get the impression that the PDGA yielded once so many people were carrying smartphones, and had access to apps that might help judge distance.

I could be wrong on both accounts.

I believe you are correct.